PompeyVillan Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Whilst it seems virtuous that America prides itself on individual freedom to say what you want and carry weapons etc, all it ends up doing is empowering nutjobs like that Nazi coward in the video to whip people and ultimately incite racism and violence. How can it ever be okay to turn up to a 'protest' armed to the teeth with assault rifles, concealed pistols, riot shields, batons etc? That's not democracy or freedom of speech that's a recipe for civil unrest and anarchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 wtf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted August 17, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2017 On 8/16/2017 at 11:35, magnkarl said: It's possible to hold two thoughts in your mind at once. Being half Jewish I know more than most about what nazism and facism has done to the world. Do you think Antifa looting stores and burning cars of people not involved in the rally last week is okay then? I for one think nazis and fascists are scum, but I also think antifa and other anarchist groups who seize moments like this to spread havoc and violence should be denounced too. One wrong doesn't make reacting in the same stupid, violent way, right. And honestly, what does a bunch of anarchist people dressed in helmets, stab gear with weapons have to do with a world fighting the worst killing machine of all times in the 30's-40's. Nothing. You don't aid your cause by punching journalists who film you looting when you are "protesting against fascim", threatening with killing people and worse. I find it weird (and disturbing) that someone could come out with the bit in bold but, basically, have no reaction to a massive group of people chanting "Jews will not replace us". Instead, the main issue in all of this is that "the left" are violent. Seriously big "what the actual ****?!" in my book. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, bobzy said: I find it weird (and disturbing) that someone could come out with the bit in bold but, basically, have no reaction to a massive group of people chanting "Jews will not replace us". Instead, the main issue in all of this is that "the left" are violent. Seriously big "what the actual ****?!" in my book. I suggest you read the posts that I put in this thread again. I said several times that I dislike very few people more than fascists. However I don't condone being violent to try to stop someone else who's being violent unless you are attacked. This exact thing happened in Germany before ww2 where anti fascists and fascists were basically brawling in the street, the public reacted by electing Hitler to deal with the communists who were a bit part of the riots. Just because I don't like violence from either side doesn't mean that I condone fascists. Anarchists who seek out people enacting their first amendment right (albeit in a gruesome way), and engaging in violence will only push more moderate conservatives further right. KKK, White Crusaders whatever you want to call them are pushing moderate left wingers into Antifa's arms and Antifa are pushing moderate conservatives into the alt-right's arms. In what you quoted, I even wrote this two sentences down.. Quote I for one think nazis and fascists are scum. Edited August 17, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted August 17, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2017 There's more 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: There's more Sounds a bit like a Trump speech - is he advising Donald? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted August 17, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2017 Here he is a from a few years ago freeing the people of Keene, New England, from the tyranny of a government that has spiralled out of control. He's certainly got a strong sense of (in)justice. http://www.cc.com/video-clips/dvppp6/the-colbert-report-difference-makers---the-free-keene-squad Click the link for a video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted August 17, 2017 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2017 20 minutes ago, magnkarl said: I dislike very few people more than fascists. Who are they? Name and shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted August 17, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2017 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 It's shit like this that infuriates me. To compare soldiers who fought against a sovereign nation who had illegally invaded other nations to a bunch of communist/syndicate-anarchists who has caused trouble in Seattle (again yesterday), Berkeley, New Jersey and Sacramento is a huge slap in the face to every single of these soldiers. No one should be condoning fascists and thugs from the KKK. But I also feel that no one should be giving antifa and their ilk any sort of moral upper hand in anything. Since when was it okay to be an anarchist? As with the above video the intelligence of the fascists in this equation ridicules this group all by itself, however the media hailing antifa as heroes is a very wrong thing to do in my eyes. It justifies threatening people's 1st amendment right, damaging universities, damaging public property and causing huge bills for the police who have to arrest them and send them through the law apparatus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 17, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted August 17, 2017 It's perfectly OK to be an anarchist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 If more people had punched their local nazi, perhaps we wouldn't have needed a world war? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: If more people had punched their local nazi, perhaps we wouldn't have needed a world war? Because the event that you quoted just before the 2nd world war, where a lot of people got punched really solved the fascist problem, didn't it? Ironic. Punching people for what they believe in never solved anything. If you think that's how you end fascism or any other evil ideology then this debate is rather useless. We've punched many people throughout times, but the best example of it never working is ISIS. Aggressive, violent behaviour is what leads to groups like this gaining support and a foothold beyond the few lunatic members they already have. Do keep ragging on them though, I'm sure they'll feel like they need to set their evil ideology aside because they're getting beaten up for exercising their 1st amendment right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, magnkarl said: Because the event that you quoted just before the 2nd world war, where a lot of people got punched really solved the fascist problem, didn't it? Ironic. Just did a quick check of British governments after 1936....yep, it did appear to work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Just did a quick check of British governments after 1936....yep, it did appear to work. Just did a quick check of British governments before 1936, it appeared to have never happened. No fascist party has ever had a meaningful part in British politics. If you knew what happened with the fascists of cable street you wouldn't even put it in this thread. Their party got dissolved by the state, not by violence. Edited August 17, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 If you had read somewhere that one group of (armed, potentially violent) people were protesting against historical monuments being pulled down and another group of (armed, potentially violent) people were vandalising and ripping down historical monuments which ones would you think were the bad guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 I'd probably say I'd need full context of the situation before coming to any judgement on the situation. When I then learned the context for the monuments, many of which were only put up many years after the events in the 1920's during an era of vile lynching, I'd be minded to say it was a repugnant statue / monument to raise in the first place. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Just did a quick check of British governments before 1936, it appeared to have never happened. No fascist party has ever had a meaningful part in British politics. Please tell me you have no direct influence on education in that university. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: If you had read somewhere that one group of (armed, potentially violent) people were protesting against historical monuments being pulled down and another group of (armed, potentially violent) people were vandalising and ripping down historical monuments which ones would you think were the bad guys? This is just dishonest and lacks any context. Do you think there should be statues of Hitler in Germany because that's 'history'? Mussolini in Italy? Would Germans/Italians wanting to tear down those statues be the bad guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Rodders said: I'd probably say I'd need full context of the situation before coming to any judgement on the situation. When I then learned the context for the monuments, many of which were only put up many years after the events in the 1920's during an era of vile lynching, I'd be minded to say it was a repugnant statue / monument to raise in the first place. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/13/what-happened-in-charlottesville-is-all-too-american-215482 article here touches on the social climate in which many monuments were going up, the violence and times of Birth of the Nation coming up, lead to to these attempts to proudly reclaim the past and put up those monuments. **** em bring them down, should never have gone up in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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