U.S. Politics

[maqroll]

12 minutes ago, Awol said:

Either he's a dumbass or Machiavelli. You can't have it both ways.

Hitler did.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

Either he's a dumbass or Machiavelli. You can't have it both ways.

He's not intelligent, or wise so he's a dumbass. But he's cunning and manipulative. There are loads of people like that.

[Awol]

7 minutes ago, blandy said:

He's not intelligent, or wise so he's a dumbass. But he's cunning and manipulative. There are loads of people like that.

So do you go along with the theory that Russia made Assad do the gas attack so Trump could attack them to throw people off the scent about him being a Russian stooge? 

I'm assuming you don't because it's so obviously ludicrous. 

[blandy]

6 minutes ago, Awol said:

So do you go along with the theory that Russia made Assad do the gas attack so Trump could attack them to throw people off the scent about him being a Russian stooge? 

I'm assuming you don't because it's so obviously ludicrous. 

No I don't, and it is ludicrous - I just wrote down my opinion on Trump, if that's OK

My guess as to why Assad, er, did gas is because he thought he could get away with it. He's an utterly vile tyrant who tortures, murders etc. etc. and has been doing so for decades. He's generally drawn back from the more overt (to the international community) horrors when his position is threatened by the possibility of the UN or US or whoever going after him.

Recently with the support of Russia giving assurance, and Trump's (now reversed) statements about not getting involved, I figure he felt he could get away with another atrocity, or that his forces did. But that's just a guess.

[Awol]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

No I don't, and it is ludicrous - I just wrote down my opinion on Trump, if that's OK

My guess as to why Assad, er, did gas is because he thought he could get away with it. He's an utterly vile tyrant who tortures, murders etc. etc. and has been doing so for decades. He's generally drawn back from the more overt (to the international community) horrors when his position is threatened by the possibility of the UN or US or whoever going after him.

Recently with the support of Russia giving assurance, and Trump's (now reversed) statements about not getting involved, I figure he felt he could get away with another atrocity, or that his forces did. But that's just a guess.

FWIW I reckon you're exactly right, but that won't sound very exciting on twitter.

[jon_c]

What price do we reckon petrol will be at by the end of the month?

[Awol]

3 minutes ago, jon_c said:

What price do we reckon petrol will be at by the end of the month?

What the price today? Same as that. 

[Chindie]

I don't think Russia playing this is that ludicrous a possibility. The attack doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things bar allow for posturing and try to put to bed problems for Trump. Destroying an airfield in Syria isn't anything of particular consequence. It doesn't threaten the Syrian regime to the extent Russian influence is hurt, it doesn't make Assad suddenly change tack (perhaps he'll put the sarin away for a while but the war carries on).

Meanwhile, Trump gets to look decisive for 5 minutes, he can grandstand as having fought against tyranny, he can pretend there isn't a Russian connection behind his regime and deflect that growing criticism for a while, and there's the usual boost using the military gets you. And the Russians benefit similarly, and can play up the evil American enemy thing Putin and co are masters of.

I'm not saying this is the case. But those are real benefits to both sides.

Or Trump may genuinely be breaking away from Russian influence and saw an opportunity to benefit himself for little risk appear which swung his position on it's head within days.

[Brumerican]

59 bombs in an hour and less than 10 fatalities ?

I'm guessing Assad was warned about it in advance. 

[tonyh29]

12 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

59 bombs in an hour and less than 10 fatalities ?

I'm guessing Assad was warned about it in advance. 

probably no friendly troops in the area for the Americans to have hit   

 

[LondonLax]

11 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

59 bombs in an hour and less than 10 fatalities ?

I'm guessing Assad was warned about it in advance. 

The Russians were warned (The US didn't want to hit Russians and start WW3), I am guessing Putin may well have passed on the info to Assad

[blandy]

16 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Trump gets to look decisive ...Trump... swung his position on it's head within days.

That doesn't look decisive to me.

[Chindie]

12 minutes ago, Brumerican said:

59 bombs in an hour and less than 10 fatalities ?

I'm guessing Assad was warned about it in advance. 

The Russians certainly were, who apparently had a presence there at the time. You'd think they'd have noticed the jets with chemical warheads leaving earlier in the week.

[Chindie]

11 minutes ago, blandy said:

That doesn't look decisive to me.

It will do to other people. I agree it makes him look 'woolly' but many will see him reacting to changing situations.

[snowychap]

4 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

I do find it a tad disingenuous that Trump was trying to block all Syrian refugees, not long ago, and now he's calling their dead children beautiful

It should certainly have people thinking twice before considering the US's actions as a defence of any sort of values.

[Brumerican]

22 minutes ago, Chindie said:

The Russians certainly were, who apparently had a presence there at the time. You'd think they'd have noticed the jets with chemical warheads leaving earlier in the week.

Seems like a waste of a killstreak .  

Should have used attack dogs . Probably would have got 15+

[Davkaus]

It's amazing how quickly people can jump behind the use of military intervention, again.

I just hope we don't jump in feet first to try and cement our place as America's bitch again.

[Awol]

59 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

It's amazing how quickly people can jump behind the use of military intervention, again.

I just hope we don't jump in feet first to try and cement our place as America's bitch again.

It was a punitive raid to let Assad know there are consequences for using chemical weapons, suitably telegraphed to avoid killing the wrong people and leading to escalation with Russia.

The US doesn't want to own the Syrian tar baby, it's just unilaterally enforcing existing international ground rules.

Shell, shoot, stab or starve until your heart's content, just don't use chemicals.

 

[TrentVilla]

14 minutes ago, Awol said:

It was a punitive raid to let Assad know there are consequences for using chemical weapons, suitably telegraphed to avoid killing the wrong people and leading to escalation with Russia.

The US doesn't want to own the Syrian tar baby, it's just unilaterally enforcing existing international ground rules.

Shell, shoot, stab or starve until your heart's content, just don't use chemicals.

 

Don't forget barrel bombs...

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

5 hours ago, Awol said:

It also complicates the narrative that Trump is Moscow's Manchurian Candidate.

Agreed,  I don't think there is anything in the Russia thing at all to be honest. It comes across as a reach by the media where they are looking up their own arse.  The U.S is worried about China.  Putin is going to stick his fingers into something very unsavory at some point that takes his **** arm off.  He has made himself look a right tit to be fair and his choice of "Chemical using friends" is higher than most world leaders,  well done.  Add to this, bombs going of in Russian cities/subway's that Putin is actually visiting at the time all in the same week.  Not the best tactical move by Putin and not such the invincible little imbecile he thinks he is. What's he gonna do now,  smash up a bus stop and beat up a cat whilst topless the word removed.