tonyh29 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 People cheering and laughing in hallowed rooms , how dare he 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Well apparently he has pissed of a lot of CIA people over it. Not really the guys you want to be upsetting if you are a sitting president Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_Wren Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 6 hours ago, mjmooney said: The Democrats seriously need to come up with a good candidate for next time. This x a million. If sanders would have won the primary. He'd have walked the presidency. And that IS the democrats fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Oh come off it. You chose one example and then deflected using it, even when I'd written a much, much better example on the same page! When somebody lies about absolutely everything, it's important to call them out. Regardless of the triviality of it. As I said, Trump and his team are gas-lighting. I'll write it again; the most obvious example was telling the CIA that the media created the 'war' between the two when there's direct and clear evidence to the contrary. He could trot out, say the sky is green, then get Conway to say 'he's just presenting an alternative fact'. You're choosing to deflect, not me. Eco's Ur-Fascism is pretty interesting with regards to this. It's fairly hard to go through that list and deny Trump is implementing a good deal of them and him and his team's constant gas-lighting is a part of it. It isn't a valid point because it has been 3 days. I must have missed Clinton being impeached in 3 days As pointed out above, Obama had to go pandering to the military et al. when he got in, but that was called governing. Trump is an ass but he has to do this. How many were worrying about the impending civil war in the US government after his election. Of all the things he has done, isn't this one of those that we would exactly have asked him to do, i.e., make good with CIA/Pentagon. Pity as cutting off the endless money folks to those folks and actually spending/re-deploying it on the American people would be a good thing. Edited January 24, 2017 by villakram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, villakram said: make good with CIA/Pentagon. Yeah, blatantly lying to them and stating a total lie to their faces is making good with them I can't get my head around how standing there and lying to them is 'making good.' Imagine having an argument with a friend, and it ends with you punching them. When you get together, your version of 'making good' is just telling them to their faces that the punch never happened and that you're going to be friends again. Read pretty much any source and he has made things worse with them. 6 hours ago, tonyh29 said: People cheering and laughing in hallowed rooms , how dare he If you can't see how this is different to Trump bringing his own cheerleaders then well. I'm guessing you didn't read the Kurt Eichenwald thread? As it addressed Obama's speech directly. Oh look, another lie: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/at-white-house-trump-tells-congressional-leaders-3-5-million-illegal-ballots-cost-him-the-popular-vote/?utm_term=.7937de2819c4 Quote Days after being sworn in, President Trump insisted to congressional leaders invited to a reception at the White House that he would have won the popular vote had it not been for millions of illegal votes, according to people familiar with the meeting. Trump has repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that widespread voter fraud caused him to lose the popular vote to Hillary Clinton, even while he clinched the presidency with an electoral college victory. Two people familiar with the meeting said Trump spent about 10 minutes at the start of the bipartisan gathering rehashing the campaign. He also told them that between 3 million and 5 million illegal votes caused him to lose the popular vote. The discussion about Trump's election victory and his claim that he would have won the popular vote was confirmed by a third person familiar with the meeting. Edited January 24, 2017 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 There's absolutely nothing that can hurt Donald Trump now, it's actually ingenious. He can say literally anything he wants and if anyone disagrees or tries to call him out on it, he just demonizes the shit out of them. Pummel them into submission. Oh you, you're just fake news now stfu. Made the free press and democracy look like a right sham. We're all sitting here like 'b-but you lied', and he and his supporters couldn't care less 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) But keyblade. all politicians lie. especially the clintons :) Edited January 24, 2017 by StefanAVFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 7 hours ago, Dom_Wren said: This x a million. If sanders would have won the primary. He'd have walked the presidency. And that IS the democrats fault. Interesting that at the time both parties were choosing candidates all the talk was about the republicans being in crisis when really were in just as bad shape and picked the worst candidate to challenge Trump's popularist moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: his supporters couldn't care less This is pretty scary.A bunch of nutters on the internet (hopefully) aren't representative of the American electorate, but there are tens of thousands of hardcore Trump supporters over on Reddit, and I find myself browsing their sub with fascination and horror as they convince themselves that every criticism by the "mainstream media" is an invention, and Trump is the single source of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: This is pretty scary.A bunch of nutters on the internet (hopefully) aren't representative of the American electorate, but there are tens of thousands of hardcore Trump supporters over on Reddit, and I find myself browsing their sub with fascination and horror as they convince themselves that every criticism by the "mainstream media" is an invention, and Trump is the single source of truth. The internet is starting to bleed into real life now. You even have alt-right get togethers and stuff now. But seriously though, r/The_Donald is actually astonishing. I used to think it was some elaborate 4chan-esque trolling, but I think there are actually millions of Americans like that and it's pretty scary to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: The internet is starting to bleed into real life now. You even have alt-right get togethers and stuff now. But seriously though, r/The_Donald is actually astonishing. I used to think it was some elaborate 4chan-esque trolling, but I think there are actually millions of Americans like that and it's pretty scary to think about. It was a shoot off from /pol/ originally and then became a bit of a ground for Russians posing as Yanks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: If you can't see how this is different to Trump bringing his own cheerleaders then well. I'm guessing you didn't read the Kurt Eichenwald thread? As it addressed Obama's speech directly. Further to this, here it is written out, as reading 40+ tweets is annoying, I know. Quote I am going to try to explain why there is so much outrage in the intelligence agencies about what Trump did on Saturday in his CIA speech. Imagine having a campaign rally at the National Cemetary. Or a cocktail fundraiser amid the grave markers of US soldiers in Normandy this "event'' Trump held, purportedly to greet CIA employees, was in the Memorial Wall room, where 117 CIA employees who died in service to our country are honored. Many more have died, and it takes special approval to receive a star on the wall or be listed in the book, called the Book of Honor. Many of the names of the fallen will never be known, because their identities have to be kept secret even in death. Rarely is that room used for anything, but when it is, solemn nature of it is recognized. GW Bush was, I believe the first president to hold an event there in 2001, but it was exceedingly respectful and in keeping with the meaning of the room. The second major event was an appearance by Obama after the killing of Bin Laden, when he went to the CIA to thank the ppl there for their often anonymous sacrifices that led to that success in the fight against terrorism. Again, solemn and fitting with the meaning of the room. Both Bush and Obama paid deep homage to those honored in the book and by the stars. CIA employees listened respectfully, but did not turn the events into rallies. Then, Trump. He has the audacity to bring people from his team to cheer for him and sit in the front rows. I can't imagine CIA employees cheering and whooping it up at Memorial Wall. It would be like screaming "BOO-yah!" at a funeral. Trump made a single, over-the-shoulder mention of the stars. But he spent most of his time griping about the media, bragging about the number of times he had been on the cover of Time Magazine, and complaining that everyone was lying about numbers at his inauguration and all the while, his professional cheerleaders who couldn't find their way to the CIA bathroom are sitting there, cheering for the many who apparently needs applause everywhere he goes. It was an abomination, perhaps the most disrespectful thing I have ever seen done by any president in that kind of place. I felt sure we would hear from former director Brennan pretty fast. Why? Because one of. those stars on the wall belongs to a close friend of his who died in service of this country. And he knows who all the others are as well. For him, I'm sure, it was like watching someone having a picnic on the graves in the National Cemetery. And then the same Trump staff that was too lazy or stupid to do the advance work on the CIA trip, so that they knew the meaning of the wall, go on TV to attack Brennan as a partisan hack for wanting a room of such enormous meaning to be treated with the solemnity it deserves. And that is an important element here. I actually don't blame Trump for this horror show on Saturday. Few people outside of govnt know the meaning of the wall. That was his staff's job, and they clearly had no idea what they were sending Trump to do. No sane person would agree to send a cheering squad. They are incompetent. Worse, they are arrogant, and respond to others pointing out their undeniable errors by attacking and whining. No, anger at the dishonoring of patriots who died is not partisan. U don't want criticism? Do your jobs better and when u screw up, like u did by turning most solemn place in intel world as a rah-rah location, just admit it, apologize, and move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 And if a reality is objective, it's not generally something you can disagree with, Spicer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Maybe he's just been reading a lot of Baudrillard recently :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) Nothing new about his claims about millions of illegal voters, he's been going on about it for months, but I love that 2 months after the election, he's still rehashing the campaign. I can vividly picture everyone else in the room sat down exchanging awkward glances for 10 minutes wondering WTF is going on. "Hey, how many votes did I lose the popular vote by? Coincidentally, that's how many illegal voters there are". https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/at-white-house-trump-tells-congressional-leaders-3-5-million-illegal-ballots-cost-him-the-popular-vote/?utm_term=.a294a21ccdd3 Quote Days after being sworn in, President Trump insisted to congressional leaders invited to a reception at the White House that he would have won the popular vote had it not been for millions of illegal votes, according to people familiar with the meeting. Trump has repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that widespread voter fraud caused him to lose the popular vote to Hillary Clinton, even while he clinched the presidency with an electoral college victory. Two people familiar with the meeting said Trump spent about 10 minutes at the start of the bipartisan gathering rehashing the campaign. He also told them that between 3 million and 5 million illegal votes caused him to lose the popular vote. The discussion about Trump's election victory and his claim that he would have won the popular vote was confirmed by a third person familiar with the meeting. The claim is not supported by any verifiable facts, and analyses of the election found virtually no confirmed cases of voter fraud, let alone millions. Clinton won the popular vote by more than 2.8 million votes. Trump won 304 electoral college votes to Clinton's 227. House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) alluded to Trump's comments as he returned to the Capitol from the meeting Monday night. “We talked about different electoral college, popular votes, going through the different ones,” McCarthy said. “Well, we talked about going back through past elections. Everyone in there goes through elections and stuff, so everybody's giving their different histories of different parts.” Asked by reporters after the meeting if Trump made any surprising statements at the gathering, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) replied, “Well, I won’t even go into that.” Edited January 24, 2017 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Could it be that he is not even bothered about the small stuff and basically says what he wants ? I don't care if 5 billion people turned up or 7, in the big scheme of things small stuff really does not matter when compared to trade or ISIS for example. He won the election and threw the media a little bone and it runs with "more people, less people" comparisons. The media are pathetic and would have jumped on anything, the grass was greener for Obama or it was colder this time than for Obama. The press have nothing, will get nothing and this is the best they can hope for, basically school newspaper stuff that makes them look like chumps and will do for the next 4 years. Powerless media now, not even after all the things Trump has said and done, they still couldn't get someone else in the White House. words removed. He is playing the media like a fiddle to be honest. The 'alternative truth', this is the same as pig fancier Cameron's " we will look after " Hard working" families" , had he not lied then the UK would undoubtedly still be in the EU. There are White house " How many people" lies and there are lies that put people into poverty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Could it be that he is not even bothered about the small stuff and basically says what he wants ? Yeah, the thin-skinned, egocentric, narcissist who keeps banging on about anything that makes him look like anything than the ultimate leader isn't bothered about the small stuff. That's entirely logical. He won the election, yet he can't stop talking about crowd sizes, or illegal voters, or lying about the **** weather for pete's sake. If he wasn't bothered about the small stuff, he wouldn't still be in campaign mode. Stating that the media are the problem and they would jump on anything is a hugely dangerous, slippery slope to go down and exactly what Trump wants people to think. it's a very deliberate (originally Russian) strategy called the 'Firehose of Falsehood' and whatever you think of the media, it's imperative we stick by them here. Edited January 24, 2017 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 5 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: But keyblade. all politicians lie. especially the clintons. I love your enthusiasm and your ability to see through what's going on. The point was really not excusing Trump and I know you know that and you're being playful, but the thing is your reply of "I'm not really interested" is a bit Trump follower-esque no? Are these not the facts you're looking for? I am as concerned as you about what's going on with Trump in the states. But to ignore their history and focus solely on what's happening right now leaves everything out of context. Yes he's gaslighting. But the reality is this is the end of a long path stretching way back past my adult life. Nothing about America's foreign policy will be decided by a man with as low a security clearance as the President at this point in history. He will most probably toe the line of the warmongerers like the majority of his predecessors. Economically he really likes money (more than ideology in my humble opinion) and the current system and is ultra conservative just like all his predecessors. Domestically, well, for me this is where it gets interesting because I believe he will have tanks on the streets at some point in his tenure. Just my opinion of course. We are witnessing something huge happening. As others have pointed out it's a geo-political reshaping of the world right before our eyes. But to ignore the role of the Clintons in getting us where we are is just surprising to me given your infectious, worthwhile, commendable enthusiasm on the subject. If nothing else (if you are so inclined, it's not a demand!!) read up on the alleged connections between the Clintons, Trump and good old 'great guy' and also convicted paedophile J. Epstein. You know, Prince Andrews alleged mate. Then maybe you may come to see him as much more of a puppet than the master. As I, and I can only assume, others do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: whatever you think of the media, it's imperative we stick by them here. Spot on. Battle for the First Amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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