ciggiesnbeer Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I still don't quite mean what he meant by only English people should play for England! If he didn't mean people born here, and he certainly doesn't mean people who have lived here for five minutes, what is his definition of an English person!? John Barnes Born in Jamaica. Raised in England. Played for England with distinction. As English as you and me. Whereas Adnan Januzaj could never be English. Maybe I have been living in the USA for too long but to my mind if Adnan Januzaj gets an UK passport then he is as English as you or me. So if Gareth Bale gets a Spanish passport then he is as Spanish as Iker Casillas? Well yes, of course. If I get a US passport I am an American, immediately. Now you might have some kind of thing like an Anglo-American or in that case Welsh-Spanish (sounds awesome ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciggiesnbeer Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I still don't quite mean what he meant by only English people should play for England! If he didn't mean people born here, and he certainly doesn't mean people who have lived here for five minutes, what is his definition of an English person!? John Barnes Born in Jamaica. Raised in England. Played for England with distinction. As English as you and me. Whereas Adnan Januzaj could never be English. Maybe I have been living in the USA for too long but to my mind if Adnan Januzaj gets an UK passport then he is as English as you or me. You must have been living abroad too long if you don't understand this thing we have now called the European Union. Oh I get it. That just means it is even easier to identify as English, or French or whatever you have ties to. Thats a good thing imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBM Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 i know the queen doesnt have an english back ground, but then again, i think the whole royal family are a waste of fresh air and tax payers money, im not a royalist although the fact that the next king of england is a villa fan amuses me with the thought that itll p*ss alot of football fans off im not saying surnames should be the only deciding factor, but its common sense that if someone is born in another country with a name native to that country, maybe even of a religion native to that country, with a cultural upbringing on that country, then they clearly arent english so just because england may be a better national side than their original country (hard to believe) it still shouldnt entitle them to play for england, but then again, this country bends over backwards for foreigners and its forbidden to defend otherwise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I still don't quite mean what he meant by only English people should play for England! If he didn't mean people born here, and he certainly doesn't mean people who have lived here for five minutes, what is his definition of an English person!? John Barnes Born in Jamaica. Raised in England. Played for England with distinction. As English as you and me. Whereas Adnan Januzaj could never be English. John Barnes was 14 when he moved to England. Januzaj was 16. Is there really that big of a difference? I think so yes. I haven't been to Jamaica (yet) but have travelled extensively in the Caribbean, and culturally things are very similar, largely I guess as a throwback to the days of the Empire. In a lot of ways some of the islands appear to do 'Britishness' better than we do in the UK. So John Barnes will have been educated in a British style system and while coming to this climate was no doubt something of a shock, I doubt that too much else was. I assume that Barnes came here because his family wanted to. Januzaj has been brought here because he is a talented footballer, no other reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) i know the queen doesnt have an english back ground, but then again, i think the whole royal family are a waste of fresh air and tax payers money, im not a royalist although the fact that the next king of england is a villa fan amuses me with the thought that itll p*ss alot of football fans off im not saying surnames should be the only deciding factor, but its common sense that if someone is born in another country with a name native to that country, maybe even of a religion native to that country, with a cultural upbringing on that country, then they clearly arent english so just because england may be a better national side than their original country (hard to believe) it still shouldnt entitle them to play for england, but then again, this country bends over backwards for foreigners and its forbidden to defend otherwise I hope you are joking. If anything, the English empire has forced people all over the world to bend over, so to take some low paid taxi drivers, nurses back with them to service England is the least one could expect. But hell no if one of their kids grows up to become a pro footballer and wants to represent England?? Now Januzaj is a special case, and I feel it would be strange for a player like him to chose to play for England. The Brazilians everybody is referring to, are not good enough to play for Brazil, let alone England, so in their case it is just a chance to play at the World Cup. Edited October 10, 2013 by momo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 If Januzaj or Bale decide they love their new adopted countries and want to become citizens etc then there should be nothing stopping them playing for the national side as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 To qualify for England you should own at least one umbrella and a bowler hat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lp_villa830 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Surely the most absurd thing about this situation is not what Wilshere said. But the fact that The FA and certain parts of the press, are talking about a call up for a kid with just a few minutes under his belt that won't even be illegible til 2018. Has he even indicated he may want to take British citizenship when possible? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) my im a little old fashioned, but people with foreign names clearly arent english and shouldnt play for england, in any sport Say Raj Patel (random name) is a 3rd generation Indian. His parents were born in England and so was he. He shouldn't play for England? Absolutely absurd argument. Edited October 11, 2013 by StefanAVFC 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I'd play Patel ahead of Wilshere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted October 11, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) my im a little old fashioned, but people with foreign names clearly arent english and shouldnt play for england, in any sport What if he changes his name? Edited October 11, 2013 by Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I'd play Patel ahead of Wilshere. I'd put him in at number 6, to see if he can improve on Samit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 And my im a little old fashioned, but people with foreign names clearly arent english and shouldnt play for england, in any sport What if he changes his name? And what defines the nationality of a name? I mean, are there many "American" names? I would imagine most of their names pre-date America, does that mean they can't have a team? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) my im a little old fashioned, but people with foreign names clearly arent english and shouldnt play for england, in any sport Say Raj Patel (random name) is a 3rd generation Indian. His parents were born in England and so was he. He shouldn't play for England? Absolutely absurd argument. If he changed his name to Barry Scott he'd be captain. Edited October 11, 2013 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaguy Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 i know the queen doesnt have an english back ground, but then again, i think the whole royal family are a waste of fresh air and tax payers money, im not a royalist although the fact that the next king of england is a villa fan amuses me with the thought that itll p*ss alot of football fans off im not saying surnames should be the only deciding factor, but its common sense that if someone is born in another country with a name native to that country, maybe even of a religion native to that country, with a cultural upbringing on that country, then they clearly arent english so just because england may be a better national side than their original country (hard to believe) it still shouldnt entitle them to play for england, but then again, this country bends over backwards for foreigners and its forbidden to defend otherwise I hope you are joking. If anything, the English empire has forced people all over the world to bend over, so to take some low paid taxi drivers, nurses back with them to service England is the least one could expect. But hell no if one of their kids grows up to become a pro footballer and wants to represent England?? Now Januzaj is a special case, and I feel it would be strange for a player like him to chose to play for England. The Brazilians everybody is referring to, are not good enough to play for Brazil, let alone England, so in their case it is just a chance to play at the World Cup. The 'British' empire is history and things have been different to those days for a long, long time. The country bends over backwards for foreigners in the modern Britain, unfortunately certain groups are keen to use that to their less than all inclusive ambitions. The idea of being secular is lovely, but really it's hippy speak and we unfortunately don't live in that fantasy peaceful world which would be the only place for secularity to work. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054909/Have-babies-Muslims-UK-hate-fanatic-says-warning-comes-9-11-UK.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 my im a little old fashioned, but people with foreign names clearly arent english and shouldnt play for england, in any sport What if he changes his name? From, say, Saxe-Coburg to Windsor? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 i know the queen doesnt have an english back ground, but then again, i think the whole royal family are a waste of fresh air and tax payers money, im not a royalist although the fact that the next king of england is a villa fan amuses me with the thought that itll p*ss alot of football fans off im not saying surnames should be the only deciding factor, but its common sense that if someone is born in another country with a name native to that country, maybe even of a religion native to that country, with a cultural upbringing on that country, then they clearly arent english so just because england may be a better national side than their original country (hard to believe) it still shouldnt entitle them to play for england, but then again, this country bends over backwards for foreigners and its forbidden to defend otherwise I hope you are joking. If anything, the English empire has forced people all over the world to bend over, so to take some low paid taxi drivers, nurses back with them to service England is the least one could expect. But hell no if one of their kids grows up to become a pro footballer and wants to represent England?? Now Januzaj is a special case, and I feel it would be strange for a player like him to chose to play for England. The Brazilians everybody is referring to, are not good enough to play for Brazil, let alone England, so in their case it is just a chance to play at the World Cup. The 'British' empire is history and things have been different to those days for a long, long time. The country bends over backwards for foreigners in the modern Britain, unfortunately certain groups are keen to use that to their less than all inclusive ambitions. The idea of being secular is lovely, but really it's hippy speak and we unfortunately don't live in that fantasy peaceful world which would be the only place for secularity to work. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054909/Have-babies-Muslims-UK-hate-fanatic-says-warning-comes-9-11-UK.html Doubt you'll get very far quoting The Daily Mail to back up your argument 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaguy Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 i know the queen doesnt have an english back ground, but then again, i think the whole royal family are a waste of fresh air and tax payers money, im not a royalist although the fact that the next king of england is a villa fan amuses me with the thought that itll p*ss alot of football fans off im not saying surnames should be the only deciding factor, but its common sense that if someone is born in another country with a name native to that country, maybe even of a religion native to that country, with a cultural upbringing on that country, then they clearly arent english so just because england may be a better national side than their original country (hard to believe) it still shouldnt entitle them to play for england, but then again, this country bends over backwards for foreigners and its forbidden to defend otherwise I hope you are joking. If anything, the English empire has forced people all over the world to bend over, so to take some low paid taxi drivers, nurses back with them to service England is the least one could expect. But hell no if one of their kids grows up to become a pro footballer and wants to represent England?? Now Januzaj is a special case, and I feel it would be strange for a player like him to chose to play for England. The Brazilians everybody is referring to, are not good enough to play for Brazil, let alone England, so in their case it is just a chance to play at the World Cup. The 'British' empire is history and things have been different to those days for a long, long time. The country bends over backwards for foreigners in the modern Britain, unfortunately certain groups are keen to use that to their less than all inclusive ambitions. The idea of being secular is lovely, but really it's hippy speak and we unfortunately don't live in that fantasy peaceful world which would be the only place for secularity to work. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054909/Have-babies-Muslims-UK-hate-fanatic-says-warning-comes-9-11-UK.html Doubt you'll get very far quoting The Daily Mail to back up your argument Ignore the daily mail then, argument doesn't need support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 i know the queen doesnt have an english back ground, but then again, i think the whole royal family are a waste of fresh air and tax payers money, im not a royalist although the fact that the next king of england is a villa fan amuses me with the thought that itll p*ss alot of football fans off im not saying surnames should be the only deciding factor, but its common sense that if someone is born in another country with a name native to that country, maybe even of a religion native to that country, with a cultural upbringing on that country, then they clearly arent english so just because england may be a better national side than their original country (hard to believe) it still shouldnt entitle them to play for england, but then again, this country bends over backwards for foreigners and its forbidden to defend otherwise I hope you are joking. If anything, the English empire has forced people all over the world to bend over, so to take some low paid taxi drivers, nurses back with them to service England is the least one could expect. But hell no if one of their kids grows up to become a pro footballer and wants to represent England?? Now Januzaj is a special case, and I feel it would be strange for a player like him to chose to play for England. The Brazilians everybody is referring to, are not good enough to play for Brazil, let alone England, so in their case it is just a chance to play at the World Cup. The 'British' empire is history and things have been different to those days for a long, long time. The country bends over backwards for foreigners in the modern Britain, unfortunately certain groups are keen to use that to their less than all inclusive ambitions. The idea of being secular is lovely, but really it's hippy speak and we unfortunately don't live in that fantasy peaceful world which would be the only place for secularity to work. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054909/Have-babies-Muslims-UK-hate-fanatic-says-warning-comes-9-11-UK.html I don't understand why you quote 'British' empire, like it never existed. So you mean that this empire is history, but forget to tell us how recent this history is. It was in 1997 that the official end of empire occured with Hong Kong going back to China, but unofficially... But of course, lets not forget all the Indian taxi drivers that drive you drunk home, all the Angolan nurses that take care of you at the hospital, all the other foreigners that came from all over the British empire. They came from countries that were looted by the British, and to be honest, you should ask yourself this question: Why the f*** would these people and their kids with non-British names, whose ancestors the British-named soldiers tortured, jailed and killed, want to represent any of the British provinces in football or any other kind of sport? I mean, first you take their wealth, now you take their most talented players, that would improve your national team, and still...you complain?? Btw, thanks for showing your true colors with that article. VillaTalk is not the place to hate Muslims. Go to EDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaguy Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) i know the queen doesnt have an english back ground, but then again, i think the whole royal family are a waste of fresh air and tax payers money, im not a royalist although the fact that the next king of england is a villa fan amuses me with the thought that itll p*ss alot of football fans off im not saying surnames should be the only deciding factor, but its common sense that if someone is born in another country with a name native to that country, maybe even of a religion native to that country, with a cultural upbringing on that country, then they clearly arent english so just because england may be a better national side than their original country (hard to believe) it still shouldnt entitle them to play for england, but then again, this country bends over backwards for foreigners and its forbidden to defend otherwise I hope you are joking. If anything, the English empire has forced people all over the world to bend over, so to take some low paid taxi drivers, nurses back with them to service England is the least one could expect. But hell no if one of their kids grows up to become a pro footballer and wants to represent England?? Now Januzaj is a special case, and I feel it would be strange for a player like him to chose to play for England. The Brazilians everybody is referring to, are not good enough to play for Brazil, let alone England, so in their case it is just a chance to play at the World Cup. The 'British' empire is history and things have been different to those days for a long, long time. The country bends over backwards for foreigners in the modern Britain, unfortunately certain groups are keen to use that to their less than all inclusive ambitions. The idea of being secular is lovely, but really it's hippy speak and we unfortunately don't live in that fantasy peaceful world which would be the only place for secularity to work. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054909/Have-babies-Muslims-UK-hate-fanatic-says-warning-comes-9-11-UK.html I don't understand why you quote 'British' empire, like it never existed. So you mean that this empire is history, but forget to tell us how recent this history is. It was in 1997 that the official end of empire occured with Hong Kong going back to China, but unofficially... But of course, lets not forget all the Indian taxi drivers that drive you drunk home, all the Angolan nurses that take care of you at the hospital, all the other foreigners that came from all over the British empire. They came from countries that were looted by the British, and to be honest, you should ask yourself this question: Why the f*** would these people and their kids with non-British names, whose ancestors the British-named soldiers tortured, jailed and killed, want to represent any of the British provinces in football or any other kind of sport? I mean, first you take their wealth, now you take their most talented players, that would improve your national team, and still...you complain?? Btw, thanks for showing your true colors with that article. VillaTalk is not the place to hate Muslims. Go to EDL. Where is the hate? I was illustrating that as Andy said we're very soft to a fault these days, and as he also wrote you cannot say anything about it these days without being labelled. I think point proven here. You seem to think of the colonial rule of the Empire in extremely bad terms, Britain brought civilisation to areas where there wasn't any and moved them forwards, much of that legacy those countries are proud of and hold onto to this day. It wasn't all bad at all. Look at post colonial Africa and how many decades they've regressed without a structured governance system. Anyway this has gone a bit off point and you haven't exactly disagreed by saying that Britain doesn't bend over backwards for foreigners have you, if anything you have backed the point up. Edited October 12, 2013 by villaguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts