Bolitics The Future of Europe

[Davkaus]

opinions will differ wether its classed as racism but you kind of get what im saying. maybe another word could of been used but to me its all the same

 

 

So what you're saying is that you're racist about those who hold prejudice?

[snowychap]

opinions will differ wether its classed as racism but you kind of get what im saying. maybe another word could of been used but to me its all the same

I'm looking forward to tonight's confessions instalment because I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you're a little pished.

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

 

 

I have to disagree, most religions have a wide cultural and geographic and ethnic diversity in it's believers. using such arguments you could say supporters of a football club are a race, or members of a political party.

 

 

You could, and I'm not necessarily saying it should be defined as that. I'm just pointing out that because race is more of a concept that has various definitions depending where you look, of which I've provided two that include religion, that it doesn't necessarily only mean ethnicity. Biologically race means varying phenotypes in the DNA of an animal, but then that would discount things such as Nationality which is often under the umbrella of racism.

 

Race isn't a real thing in the way it's often used, it's more of a social concept, which is why Racism is so stupid, Humans can't/shouldn't be defined and grouped together based purely on similar genetic make-up, attributes and beliefs.

Edited February 18, 2014 by MessiWillSignForVilla

[bickster]

i think racism can be about colour and religion

No it quite plainly can't.

why?

 

Religion isn't a race - well, apart from the jews.

The Jews are not a race, never have been, never will be.

[Rugeley Villa]

opinions will differ wether its classed as racism but you kind of get what im saying. maybe another word could of been used but to me its all the same

So what you're saying is that you're racist about those who hold prejudice?

wish I had not bloody said anything ha,

[Rugeley Villa]

opinions will differ wether its classed as racism but you kind of get what im saying. maybe another word could of been used but to me its all the same

I'm looking forward to tonight's confessions instalment because I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you're a little pished.

the way its going I will be reaching for henry very soon

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

#freehenry

[Awol]

If we want to predict the future of the EU, we probably need only take a look at the history of the American union.

 

The states entered into the union in the belief that they could withdraw, it was only when South Carolina decided to do so, that they found out the consequences.

 

The similarities are scary. The fetters of the American union were forged in the flames of the civil war, which was disguised by a lot hypocritical talk about slavery.

 

Similarly, every time any country demurs from the ideological path towards EU federalism, we get the same old cant about European brotherhood and the threat of a new Hitler.  

 

The true nature of the European Union will not be revealed until a country tries to withdraw.

 

No country wants to test the reality by actually leaving, so we just get endless promises and lies (like we never signed up to the Maastricht treaty). 

 

Judging by the pressure the EU is putting on Switzerland, which is not a member, to conform with the EU's ideology or face financial consequences, it would seem that, should it happen, it is going to be pretty ugly.

 

As Slavoj Zizek points out, Beethoven's Ode To Joy, is beloved by every fascist regime, and it is no coincidence that the EU chose it.

I agree with much of your analysis there. One of the EU's great successes has been to convince so many people that the project is essentially benign, instead of a corporatist, authoritarian monster intent on sucking the democracy from Europe's bones.   

 

Where I disagree is the reaction of Brussels to the withdrawal of any member state from the EU. That will be limited to vindictive economic threats about access to the single market (which any withdrawing nation is highly unlikely to be excluded from) which would in any case be squished by the WTO. For all their bluster the EU is basically a giant bluff and should that be called it will rapidly become clear that the Emperor has no clothes - which is why they'll do anything to avoid that situation materialising.

 

Just on the point about nation states being 'soooo last century', it simply ain't true. Since 1990 the world has seen the creation of 34 new sovereign nations, the most recent being South Sudan in 2011. The EU is swimming against the global tide of decentralising power to more representative structures, which is why the federalist dream of a US of Europe has less substance than a cloud of w@nk mist. 

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

As things stand, joining a federal Europe would only mean changing one set of rich arseholes for another, which is why there needs to be a sweeping change in how the world is run before such a prospect can be entertained.

[maqroll]

I wonder how much anti-immigrant fervor is behind these victories in UK, France and Denmark? Can it be considered the decisive factor?

[tonyh29]

Only on VT can someone express a view that is ill informed and highly offensive and the argument turns to pedantics over the correct word

Go visit the Muslim world RV , they don't have 2 heads and they aren't trying to take over the world...

You seem to be confusing the views of a few extremists as policy that would be like saying the KKK are the view of Christians the world over

Yeah there are areas of Islam that are from the Stone Age and also hypercritical but again they don't corner the market in that regard either

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I wonder how much anti-immigrant fervor is behind these victories in UK, France and Denmark? Can it be considered the decisive factor?

 

It's more anti-EU for the most part, which I can understand, but I also find it alarming that the protest votes have endorsed fear, hatred and racism by electing hardline nationalist parties.

 

People won't achieve change by blaming innocent people. If we want a better future, we need to shake off our prejudices and tackle the bigger problems - wealth inequality and climate change.

[Wainy316]

I think it has everything to do with immigration here, but obviously the EU provides the gateway to the biggest influx. The Sun and the Heil have been harping on about the Bulgarians and Romanians for a long time now and the masses take it all in and get into a needless frenzy. They think these people are coming to destroy the country and claim free mansions.

[Danwichmann]

I think it has everything to do with immigration here, but obviously the EU provides the gateway to the biggest influx. The Sun and the Heil have been harping on about the Bulgarians and Romanians for a long time now and the masses take it all in and get into a needless frenzy. They think these people are coming to destroy the country and claim free mansions.

 

When in fact there are less Bulgarians and Romanians in the country now than there were before the "floodgates opened". 

[Wainy316]

I think it has everything to do with immigration here, but obviously the EU provides the gateway to the biggest influx. The Sun and the Heil have been harping on about the Bulgarians and Romanians for a long time now and the masses take it all in and get into a needless frenzy. They think these people are coming to destroy the country and claim free mansions.

When in fact there are less Bulgarians and Romanians in the country now than there were before the "floodgates opened".

But that wouldn't tell the story the two mentioned papers want would it.

[Danwichmann]

 

 

I think it has everything to do with immigration here, but obviously the EU provides the gateway to the biggest influx. The Sun and the Heil have been harping on about the Bulgarians and Romanians for a long time now and the masses take it all in and get into a needless frenzy. They think these people are coming to destroy the country and claim free mansions.

When in fact there are less Bulgarians and Romanians in the country now than there were before the "floodgates opened".

But that wouldn't tell the story the two mentioned papers want would it.

 

No, naturally far more effective for them to hunt down the one family that seems to have claimed a slightly disproportionate amount from the state, exaggerate it greatly and present this as the typical case. Then let the readers, who are frankly glad of the excuse to engage in some Johnny foreigner bashing, spread and exaggerate it even further while getting the actual facts ever more distorted. With an electorate like that, democracy doesn't stand a chance. 

[donnie]

I think it has everything to do with immigration here, but obviously the EU provides the gateway to the biggest influx. The Sun and the Heil have been harping on about the Bulgarians and Romanians for a long time now and the masses take it all in and get into a needless frenzy. They think these people are coming to destroy the country and claim free mansions.

When in fact there are less Bulgarians and Romanians in the country now than there were before the "floodgates opened".

Please provide an accurate source that backs up this claim.

[StefanAVFC]

I think everybody who is xenophobic needs to go into a school in a multicultural area. You will quickly learn that somebody's race or nationality doesn't matter in the slightest.

[Dr_Pangloss]

im scared the future of Europe is islam. I believe the aim from islam is to have one religion and the world to have the Islamic flag governing it. no offence intended to anyone who is  muslim and im not racist, but I truly believe that is the goal. life would not be worth living and I prey it does not happen. just wish religions could live side by side and in peace. i find muslim communities very withdrawn and not very inviting. as i said im no racist and no offence was intended, just posting my opinion on future europe

You are obviously an unnecessarily paranoid man then. 

Edited May 26, 2014 by Dr_Pangloss

[thetrees]

Only on VT can someone express a view that is ill informed and highly offensive and the argument turns to pedantics over the correct word

Go visit the Muslim world RV , they don't have 2 heads and they aren't trying to take over the world...

You seem to be confusing the views of a few extremists as policy that would be like saying the KKK are the view of Christians the world over

Yeah there are areas of Islam that are from the Stone Age and also hypercritical but again they don't corner the market in that regard either

Nearly a like from me Tony, except for the opener, which to me should have read 'is ill informed and *appears* highly offensive'

The OP is someone who holds a generally amiable stance across his contributions to VT and has alluded to his not being the most educated person in the past, yet he remains a colourful and worthwhile contributor.

By delving into such off topic threads RV demonstrates a desire to contribute and learn, and there are plenty of perhaps better educated political contributors of all areas of the political spectrum on here that can assist him, and the many of us who are prepared to listen and learn, in forming and refining our own views.