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The Future of Europe

maqroll

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StefanAVFC Grand Master

StefanAVFC

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Only on VT can someone express a view that is ill informed and highly offensive and the argument turns to pedantics over the correct word

Go visit the Muslim world RV , they don't have 2 heads and they aren't trying to take over the world...

You seem to be confusing the views of a few extremists as policy that would be like saying the KKK are the view of Christians the world over

Yeah there are areas of Islam that are from the Stone Age and also hypercritical but again they don't corner the market in that regard either

Nearly a like from me Tony, except for the opener, which to me should have read 'is ill informed and *appears* highly offensive'

The OP is someone who holds a generally amiable stance across his contributions to VT and has alluded to his not being the most educated person in the past, yet he remains a colourful and worthwhile contributor.

By delving into such off topic threads RV demonstrates a desire to contribute and learn, and there are plenty of perhaps better educated political contributors of all areas of the political spectrum on here that can assist him, and the many of us who are prepared to listen and learn, in forming and refining our own views.

 

 

These were my thoughts. I love RV. He just appears misguided at times but definitely shows a willingness to learn. So much more refreshing than people who are so stuck in their ways, that they don't even consider another viewpoint.

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maqroll Grand Master

maqroll

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Only on VT can someone express a view that is ill informed and highly offensive and the argument turns to pedantics over the correct word

Go visit the Muslim world RV , they don't have 2 heads and they aren't trying to take over the world...

You seem to be confusing the views of a few extremists as policy that would be like saying the KKK are the view of Christians the world over

Yeah there are areas of Islam that are from the Stone Age and also hypercritical but again they don't corner the market in that regard either

Nearly a like from me Tony, except for the opener, which to me should have read 'is ill informed and *appears* highly offensive'

The OP is someone who holds a generally amiable stance across his contributions to VT and has alluded to his not being the most educated person in the past, yet he remains a colourful and worthwhile contributor.

By delving into such off topic threads RV demonstrates a desire to contribute and learn, and there are plenty of perhaps better educated political contributors of all areas of the political spectrum on here that can assist him, and the many of us who are prepared to listen and learn, in forming and refining our own views.

 

Well said. I've learned a ton reading this forum over the years. It's one of the reasons I keep coming back!

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Danwichmann Enthusiast

Danwichmann

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I think it has everything to do with immigration here, but obviously the EU provides the gateway to the biggest influx. The Sun and the Heil have been harping on about the Bulgarians and Romanians for a long time now and the masses take it all in and get into a needless frenzy. They think these people are coming to destroy the country and claim free mansions.

When in fact there are less Bulgarians and Romanians in the country now than there were before the "floodgates opened".

Please provide an accurate source that backs up this claim.

 

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_361188.pdf

 

4000 less Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK since employment restrictions were ended. 

Edited by Danwichmann
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turnbull Mentor

turnbull

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So who's got the drugs what's going on here are we getting high and circle jerkin' or what?

 

 

I will if you are

Hardly a circle though is it............................ B)

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lapal_fan Grand Master

lapal_fan

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So who's got the drugs what's going on here are we getting high and circle jerkin' or what?

I will if you are

Hardly a circle though is it............................ B)

You've only got to ask ;)

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Rugeley Villa Grand Master

Rugeley Villa

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When I was growing up there was a family from bangladesh who lived a few doors down from us, if I remember right they were the only foreign family on the estate. Me and the other kids used to play with them a lot and mostly got on with them but obviously there was fall outs, not because of skin colour but because kids fall out. My grandparents brought me up mainly and they did not really have any problem with the family, but I always remember we was not allowed in their house because we were white. I knew this because the kids of this family used to tell us that. When fall outs happend racial slurs would be thrown about from both sets of kids although I don't ever remember me saying anything of that nature. The same family still live in the same house and run a couple of indian restaurants and seem quite a well respected family. This estate I grew up on was a nice estate and was considered one of the nicer parts of rugeley, when I was 11 I moved down to the other side of town with my mum onto this council estate. I very quickly realised that the people who lived on this estate were a lot different to the people on the estate I grew up on. Again it was a mainly white area as rugeley is mostly white but there was the odd black family down this end of town. The local shop which I lived above was run by a pakistani family and the abuse he received was sick. I admit I played a little part in it as I started knocking around with the local kids, but I was mainly a by stander to the abuse. My next door neibour who was a fully grown man would terrorise the shop owner and encourage all of us to do things to his shop. The police were always being called out, anyway I soon moved back up with my grandparents and got on with my working life. My grandparents were brilliant to me and I owe them a lot , if it wernt for them I would of probably been in and out of prison because my dad never stuck around and me and my mum wernt close and I had no respect for her because of how she had hurt me several times(emotionally). They kept me on the straight and narrow as best as they could. Now they were very old fasioned and working class people who had worked hard all their life, if any faults could be found with them it would be ignorance. Like the time I was with a freind, she was a black girl and she wanted to use our toilet. I was very unsure about this, not on a personal level but how my grandad would react. I went in and asked my gran and her words were no because your grandad will hit the roof, so I had to shamefully go back out and lie to this girl by saying my grandad was in the bath so she could not use it. Was my grandad a racist? To a degree yes but he also got on with an indian family who ran the shops near him. My gran just went along with his word so she had no say. Its fair to say black people was not welcome in our house, and there was a point when blues and wolves fans wernt a loud in. My grandparents were good people, my grandad was a conservative man all his life. Although he was a worker he did not agree with labour and did not believe in the unions and strikes. You were meant to go to work and provide for your family no matter what, they were his views. He was a big thatcher supporter. I did not do great at school but I was not in the bottom classes either. If I put my mind to it I could of done a lot better but I just was not interested apart from sports. I left school with not greats grades but I passed all my exams, I left school straight away to go and work on a building site labouring for a gang of brickies. One of them was extremely racist who would wind down his window of his car and shout stuff to pakistani people. This used to make me cringe and I felt sorry for them. In all my years of being alive I could not understand this abuse I'd witnessed over the years, but I just thought it was normal. Places like birmingham and wolverhampton were another planet compared to a small old pit town like rugeley. Always remember being on a bus going to dudley zoo when I was younger, I was with my grandparents and we were the only white people on the bus. That made my grandparents uncomftable and they would always bring it up even years after. Anyway in my late teens I was a typical lad in my town. Go out to work in the construction game then fridays to sunday were spent in the pub, when I was in my late teens there was a lot of bnp supporters in the town who would do the rounds in the pubs trying to recruit people. They tried with me and I listened and took some stuff in but I knew it wernt for me, and the image they had was very tacky in my eyes. Fast forward to today and I have mates or should I say associates from all walks of life. I've got freinds who are in the edl I've got freinds who are convicted football hooligans, I'm mates with most of the drug dealers. But then I have mates who have travelled the world and also mates who hold down respectable jobs . I can mingle with all kinds of people, I myself have changed for the better over the years. I've been in some very dark places at times, I regret a lot of stuff like not making the most of my earlier life by travelling the world and seeing new places. I've had some fun and there has been some colourful moments in my life good and bad, overall I'm a good person I think but a bit ill informed and not very well educated on stuff like politics. Now I can talk music all day long but politics and religion aint my strong point. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not racist but maybe a bit ignorant. This forum holds a lot of well educated people, I admire a lot of people on here for the way they come across. If I've come across as racist I apologise and I hope you see that its not me being racist its me being ignorant. Part of it is my upbringing I suppose but it down to me to change my views. Back on topic now and my views on foreign people are that I don't have any problem with them at all. But I really want islam to show me something different, all you see about islam is negative. Look what the papers print, look at the news. Its all negative. I know deep down that aint the true islam but I guess I'm just after reasurance from that religion that it is peaceful. Does islam worry me? Yes at the moment it does but like I said I really do hope I can see the other side of it. Sorry about the long post ha and I know it went a bit off topic but I just wanted to clear a few things up.

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NurembergVillan Grand Master

NurembergVillan

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http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_361188.pdf

 

4000 less Romanians and Bulgarians working in the UK since employment restrictions were ended. 

 

 

Wouldn't the staple bigoted response to that be that they're on the ponce rather than working?

 

That's something I find confusing about this immigration thing.  They're either taking all our jobs or hijacking our benefit system.  Surely they can't be doing both?

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lapal_fan Grand Master

lapal_fan

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RV, as has been said, you're a good guy, you've been an extremely open and entertaining person since you joined in my opinion and I'd hope that you continue to contribute. As you've said, I've learned a lot since I started reading/posting on this forum, it truely is a great website, with people from all differing backgrounds, colours, creeds and cultures - it's fantastic what you can learn from being in such a melting pot of people.

 

I'm lucky in that I feel as though I'm fairly well educated (Went to Wolvo Unit - nothing special!) and I feel as though from High School to college, there's a great big flipping hole where you're expected to become an adult. You realise at college that you're no longer a kid, you don't start fights or slag people off because of issues, you need to be diplomatic and talk with people about issues. If I hadn't have gone to College/Uni - I don't think I'd have learnt that to be honest.. It's difficult to imagine where I'd be without taking those educative steps.

 

My dad grew up with an alcoholic father and his mom ran away with a bloke to Somerset when he was 12. He had an elder brother who is a year older than he is and 3 younger siblings (2 brothers and a girl). He suffered pretty greatly as a kid and luckily for him, a family over the road saw something in my dad an gave him a place to stay (literally on the same street). From there, he realised he had no future where he was an joing the merchant navy after coming to the conclusion he didn't want to join the army (who were in Northern Ireland at the time) because he didn't feel the fighting was right. After 3 years in the navy and travelling all over the world he met my mom when he was on leave and 2 years later married her.

 

When people such as yourself realise that getting out of these types of lifestyles isn't right, I think it's incredibly admirable that you're trying to change it. You sound like you have a nice little kid and another on the way. You're not going out for weekend benders and you've sought help with your depression on here and been open with everyone. It's a really good step you've taken those steps and as you've just said, you're willing to learn.

 

Being willing to learn is the single biggest thing you can do, people who are closed books don't want to change and they stay stuck in their ruts. You see people around my area, all in their 30s and 40s, going to the pub every night, getting smashed, going to the off license off their trolley's, getting chips from the chippy next door swearing and drinking cans of larger all when their kids are stood next to them - what chance do they have? I'd love to hope that you, similar to my dad - have a spark that can take them away from that and give themselves and their kids the best chance for the future.

 

It's not easy and I've been extremely lucky in having my parents guide me in a way where I (think) I know the difference between right and wrong. I'll never be very wealthy or well educated (most likely), but I've got a nice little job, a decent little car, a great wife and we're lucky enough to have the opportunity to go on little holidays here and there. When I have kids, I hope I can give them what my parents gave me.

 

But keep being yourself and more importantly, keep learning :):thumb:

Edited by lapal_fan
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