Bolitics The Future of Europe

[peterms]

I'll go first and pledge not to be a dick. Who's with me?

Fascist git.

[Awol]

Self moderated to protect the feelings of the over sensitive..

[PauloBarnesi]

Is this what you mean? Rolf Magnus Joakim Larsson

[maqroll]

  United States of Europe?

 

A "United States of Europe" should be formed by the 18 eurozone countries to stabilise the European single currency, a vice-president of theEuropean commission says in a speech on Monday evening.

Speaking at the Cambridge University faculty of law, Viviane Reding borrows Winston Churchill's historic 1946 phrase as she called for a full fiscal and political union on much of the continent.

Delivering the Mackenzie Stuart lecture, Reding says: "There is a strong case for a true fiscal and ultimately political union. In my personal view, the eurozone should become the United States of Europe."

However, Reding endorses Churchill's view, outlined in his Zurich speech in 1946, that Britain should remain apart from the United States of Europe.

She says: "Like Winston Churchill, I believe that the UK will not be part of this, but it should remain a close ally with the federated eurozone, with which it would continue to share a common market, a common trade policy and hopefully a common security agenda."

British sources dismissed Reding as an "unrepentant federalist". But they welcomed the acknowledgment by a senior member of the European commission of the extent of changes needed to create new governance arrangements for the eurozone, which would require treaty change.

David Cameron insists that he will be able to table major changes to the EU if he wins the 2015 general election because he says that treaty change, which would require the UK's agreement, is inevitable.

Reding also acknowledges one of the prime minister's central demands – that the 10 EU members outside the eurozone, led by Britain, will need guarantees to ensure that the single market is protected.

Reding says: "The eurozone members must acknowledge the need to find solutions where their interests are different from those of the member states who do not share the single currency. Otherwise, they risk pushing the UK out of the EU before it decides of its own accord, as it might, to jump."

The commissioner from Luxembourg hopes to succeed José Manuel Barroso as the next president of the European commission. This is seen as highly unlikely because she is from Luxembourg, whose former prime minister, Jean Claude-Juncker, is a more likely candidate.

A Foreign Office source said in response to Reding's speech: "This is a mixed bag of a lecture from an unrepentant federalist. While Commissioner Reding recognises the needs of euro-outs and the global race, there's no understanding that the EU's deep flaws need putting right, for example leaving more issues to national governments and the lack of democratic accountability. Nothing's more damaging to the EU than failing to accept that it needs to deal with problems like free movement abuse.

"Only a tiny minority across Europe back her call for a United States of Europe but she's entitled to her view, however few share it. The prime minister, however, is confronting those problems by seeking to make the EU work better for all and giving the British people a choice on the EU: in or out."

Reding's call for a United States of Europe is a more dramatic version of Barroso's call in his state of the union speech in 2012 for the creation of a "federation of nation states". He said this would require treaty change.

Edited February 17, 2014 by maqroll

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I'm up for it, but the EU needs to be a far more democratic system than it currently is.

 

The further we get away from bullshit nation states the better.

Edited February 17, 2014 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner

[MakemineVanilla]

If we want to predict the future of the EU, we probably need only take a look at the history of the American union.

 

The states entered into the union in the belief that they could withdraw, it was only when South Carolina decided to do so, that they found out the consequences.

 

The similarities are scary. The fetters of the American union were forged in the flames of the civil war, which was disguised by a lot hypocritical talk about slavery.

 

Similarly, every time any country demurs from the ideological path towards EU federalism, we get the same old cant about European brotherhood and the threat of a new Hitler.  

 

The true nature of the European Union will not be revealed until a country tries to withdraw.

 

No country wants to test the reality by actually leaving, so we just get endless promises and lies (like we never signed up to the Maastricht treaty). 

 

Judging by the pressure the EU is putting on Switzerland, which is not a member, to conform with the EU's ideology or face financial consequences, it would seem that, should it happen, it is going to be pretty ugly.

 

As Slavoj Zizek points out, Beethoven's Ode To Joy, is beloved by every fascist regime, and it is no coincidence that the EU chose it.

Edited February 17, 2014 by MakemineVanilla

[Rugeley Villa]

im scared the future of Europe is islam. I believe the aim from islam is to have one religion and the world to have the Islamic flag governing it. no offence intended to anyone who is  muslim and im not racist, but I truly believe that is the goal. life would not be worth living and I prey it does not happen. just wish religions could live side by side and in peace. i find muslim communities very withdrawn and not very inviting. as i said im no racist and no offence was intended, just posting my opinion on future europe

[bickster]

How can you be racist about a religion?

[Rugeley Villa]

i think racism can be about colour and religion

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I wouldn't worry about it, but of course, that will be the narrative in the coming decades, won't it? Blame the Muslims, dehumanise them etc. etc.

 

Meanwhile the problems that really matter will persist and the inequality will worsen.

[Rugeley Villa]

the main problem with Europe and the world is humans, until that problem is taken out then their will be no peace or improvement

[bickster]

i think racism can be about colour and religion

No it quite plainly can't.

[Rugeley Villa]

why?

[Davkaus]

Religion isn't a race - well, apart from the jews. You might as well claim homophobia can be about age..

[NoelVilla]

In the near future I see a lot of nationalism and racial tensions. The nationalist party here polls around 10% now and I suspect/fear that it will be around 20% in the September elections.

In the longer perspective I see poverty and a decline in the average persons living standard.

[Rugeley Villa]

ok that's fair enough but if im calling a black man this and that im having a go because hes black and its the same with a muslim or jew or whatever, its still a form of me being racist. im singling out that person because of what they are be it a black man a jew muslim Sikh or whatever, maybe their is a better word but i see it as racism

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

 

i think racism can be about colour and religion

No it quite plainly can't.

 

 

It can, in some ways:

 

race, the idea that the human species is divided into distinct groups on the basis of inherited physical and behavioral differences. Genetic studies in the late 20th century refuted the existence of biogenetically distinct races, and scholars now argue that “races” are cultural interventions reflecting specific attitudes and beliefs that were imposed on different populations in the wake of western European conquests beginning in the 15th century.

 

That's from Encyclopedia Britannica - http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/488030/race

 

And from a slightly less reliable source, Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification):

 

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation.

 

 

Although it often refers to ethnicity, it can mean be used in relation to Religion, though it is rare that it does.

 

Race seems to be a fairly undefined concept, and there are quite a few varying definitions, depending on what your source is.

 

 

EDIT: Should have added at the start that Racism is defined as considering different races can be inferior/superior or should be treated differently, which is why I put the definitions for race.

Edited February 18, 2014 by MessiWillSignForVilla

[mockingbird_franklin]

ok that's fair enough but if im calling a black man this and that im having a go because hes black and its the same with a muslim or jew or whatever, its still a form of me being racist. im singling out that person because of what they are be it a black man a jew muslim Sikh or whatever, maybe their is a better word but i see it as racism

Racism refers to discrimination based on race, You don't have to be a particular race to believe in any particular religion, and that includes Judaism, You can't possibly believe all Muslims or Christians are from the same racial grouping, I sort of get what you are saying, It's discrimination to define someone negatively using their religious beliefs and hence similar to racism, Their is no word for religious discrimination, so the term religious discrimination is logically used, but the term racism can not and should not be used to define religious discrimination.

[mockingbird_franklin]

 

 

i think racism can be about colour and religion

No it quite plainly can't.

 

 

It can, in some ways:

 

race, the idea that the human species is divided into distinct groups on the basis of inherited physical and behavioral differences. Genetic studies in the late 20th century refuted the existence of biogenetically distinct races, and scholars now argue that “races” are cultural interventions reflecting specific attitudes and beliefs that were imposed on different populations in the wake of western European conquests beginning in the 15th century.

 

That's from Encyclopedia Britannica - http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/488030/race

 

And from a slightly less reliable source, Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification):

 

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linquistic, religious, and/or social affiliation.

 

 

Although it often refers to ethnicity, it can mean be used in relation to Religion, though it is rare that it does.

 

Race seems to be a fairly undefined concept, and there are quite a few varying definitions, depending on what your source is.

 

I have to disagree, most religions have a wide cultural and geographic and ethnic diversity in it's believers. using such arguments you could say supporters of a football club are a race, or members of a political party.

[Rugeley Villa]

opinions will differ wether its classed as racism but you kind of get what im saying. maybe another word could of been used but to me its all the same