Mantis Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) I guess you could say it's a strange point, but then again so is your "we are not good defensively with Vlaar therefore Vlaar is average at best" line. Just because a part of a team or the team as a whole aren't good doesn't mean individuals can't be good - that's my whole point. Edited May 5, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I've never disagreed with that point. I just don't think vlaar has been good on a consistent basis and I don't think we're a good enough team defensively with him. We allow far too many chances to teams with this defensive unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I disagree. I think Vlaar has been consistently good and one good player alone can't turn a fragile defence into a solid one, just like Benteke can't single-handedly make us a team that scores tons of goals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 No but benteke himself can score lots of goals. You say one good player but Bertrand is decent and I'm consistently told lowton and bacuna have been very good signings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 No but benteke himself can score lots of goals. You say one good player but Bertrand is decent and I'm consistently told lowton and bacuna have been very good signings. And Vlaar often puts in very good tackles. Thing about defenders is that the unit as a whole is more important. I rate Bertrand and I do think Lowton and Bacuna were good purchases (given how little we paid for them) but the simple fact is that the defence as a whole, particularly Clark and Baker (who have been playing alongside Vlaar all season) just aren't even close to him when it comes to defensive ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I worry a Man Utd will steal him in a couple years. Becoming one of my favorite players. Another solid display and some of his touches and runs out of defence were brilliant From September 2012, hopefully wont happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Cropley Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 To be honest I'm with BJ10, I've never been convinced about him. I sometimes think that after watching the likes of God, Laursen and to a slightly lesser extent Mellberg, we're all desperate for a hero type centre back. Vlaar ain't that, albeit he hasn't had the best of defensive partners.... I still recall the time when we signed him and Feyenoord fans were on some Villa fan sites taking the piss. At the time I just thought it was sour grapes but maybe they had a point ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) To be honest I'm with BJ10, I've never been convinced about him. I sometimes think that after watching the likes of God, Laursen and to a slightly lesser extent Mellberg, we're all desperate for a hero type centre back. Vlaar ain't that, albeit he hasn't had the best of defensive partners.... I still recall the time when we signed him and Feyenoord fans were on some Villa fan sites taking the piss. At the time I just thought it was sour grapes but maybe they had a point ? What the actual ****? Edited May 5, 2014 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Cropley Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 To be honest I'm with BJ10, I've never been convinced about him. I sometimes think that after watching the likes of God, Laursen and to a slightly lesser extent Mellberg, we're all desperate for a hero type centre back. Vlaar ain't that, albeit he hasn't had the best of defensive partners.... I still recall the time when we signed him and Feyenoord fans were on some Villa fan sites taking the piss. At the time I just thought it was sour grapes but maybe they had a point ? What the actual ****? Which bit of the 'actual f**k' didn't you grasp ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 To be honest I'm with BJ10, I've never been convinced about him. I sometimes think that after watching the likes of God, Laursen and to a slightly lesser extent Mellberg, we're all desperate for a hero type centre back. Vlaar ain't that, albeit he hasn't had the best of defensive partners.... I still recall the time when we signed him and Feyenoord fans were on some Villa fan sites taking the piss. At the time I just thought it was sour grapes but maybe they had a point ? What the actual ****? Which bit of the 'actual f**k' didn't you grasp ? That you think they had a point when they were taking the piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Cropley Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Why ? Is he that good ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 No but benteke himself can score lots of goals. You say one good player but Bertrand is decent and I'm consistently told lowton and bacuna have been very good signings. You think Benteke is good? Maybe his off-form, injuries and his understudy's injury has caused Villa more problems than what has come out at VillaTalk. Ever thought about that? Maybe if he was scoring for fun like last year, Villa would be sat at 12 instead of 14. UTV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Why ? Is he that good ? He is pretty good. Regardless, I don't think you can deny that at £3m it was a good deal and certainly not something to be sniggering at. Even most Feyenoord fans would probably admit they were wrong about him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 If i recall he was their captain and leader and they were gutted to lose him.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 No but benteke himself can score lots of goals. You say one good player but Bertrand is decent and I'm consistently told lowton and bacuna have been very good signings. You think Benteke is good? Maybe his off-form, injuries and his understudy's injury has caused Villa more problems than what has come out at VillaTalk. Ever thought about that? Maybe if he was scoring for fun like last year, Villa would be sat at 12 instead of 14. UTV. Err....what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 What people need to remind is this has been a ridiculously high scoring season..we've conceded 54 but plenty of teams above us in the league have conceded close to that, Newcastle have actually conceded more than us and Spurs and Stoke have only conceded 3 less and both these teams have better defensive units/more money than we do. Even Liverpool have only conceded about 7 less than we have. I rate Vlaar as a top 10 defender no problem, not sure he's quite good enough for top 6 unless he's just a squad player but he has shown significant improvement this year. In that spell he missed over xmas when he came off at half time v Southampton we were conceding two on average a game, think it came in the end to 11 goals conceded in 5 and a half game without him before he returned at Sunderland. We also conceded 2 without him at home to West Ham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 5, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 5, 2014 Why ? Is he that good ? He is pretty good. Regardless, I don't think you can deny that at £3m it was a good deal and certainly not something to be sniggering at. Even most Feyenoord fans would probably admit they were wrong about him. Fan opinion is hardly the best barometer of a player especially when they've just been sold. We've seen it with Benteke for example and with Bacuna, I don't actually recall any comments in relation to Vlaar but then I wouldn't really have taken the slightest bit of notice of them. As for the point raised up the page saying Vlaar isn't of the same standard of some of our previous CB's, well no he isn't but then the club isn't at the same level as it used to be either. I don't think anyone thinks Vlaar is up there with the best CB's we've had in recent years but he is the best we've got, our better defensive performances and results normally come when he is available and at £3m I think he was a good buy and good value in a market that sees the likes of Caulker go for £8m good player though he is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 That leaky Liverpool defence needs Vlaar in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 7, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 7, 2014 The excruciating effort Big John goes to to be negative about every single thing about the club, even the few things that we can actually be positive about, is quite frankly admirable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Just as vlaar gets easily bullied off the ball for a goal. Fantastic timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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