All-Purpose Religion Thread

[fruitvilla]

6 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

For me, it's a never ending question, then you ask, ok, so what is the source of the matter, and what is the source of that? Etc etc etc to infinity.

If this were true for you, then the logical position would be agnostic, and admit you don't know the answer. Yet we have some arm waving and the conclusion that some kind of entity is responsible. 

We have copious amount of evidence that the universe exists. We are over the centuries learning the properties of the universe. At the edge of the understanding there always will be more questions. That is the nature of understanding.

A lack of understanding, in my opinion, is not an excuse to make up entities and believe in them.

[Brumerican]

6 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Maybe the Universe itself is the " all powerful " entity? It's all energy and creation ain't it? 

Technically we are made of the universe.

 

[foreveryoung]

4 hours ago, hogso said:

I find Gnosticism absolutely fascinating. Largely due to having played tens of thousands of hours worth of JRPGs which take copious inspiration from it; the Xeno series and SMT Persona cheif amongst them.

Contrary to the link above, I actually thought the creation of the Demiurge by Sophia was due to Her causing Pleroma to overflow - the matter which overflowed is that which makes up our material world - because She was, well, a bit bored. 

[Ingram85]

It’s all a load of bollocks and I question the judgement of an actual grown up adult that actually believes a single word of any of the bloody nonsense. 

A control method created by the rich and powerful from thousands of years ago written for a less advanced way of thinking/questioning. That people still follow any of it truly blows my mind. 

Good things happen = glory to god. Bad things happen = a part of gods wishy washy very vague plan.

These gods take all the credit quick enough but none of the responsibility. They sound like egomaniacal arseholes to me. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Ingram85

[fruitvilla]

2 hours ago, Brumerican said:

 

I see your Alan Watts and raise you, Feynman, de Grasse Tyson, Sagan and Nye

Incidentally, the etymology of the word religion comes from the Latin ligare, to connect (ligand, ligament) so religion means to reconnect. So Watts, @JAMAICAN-VILLAN and no doubt many others are pointing to this connection to the universe and wanting to feel it. The orthodox Abrahamic religions are the antithesis of being connected.

Edited July 16, 2022 by fruitvilla

[Xann]

[Seal]

22 hours ago, fruitvilla said:

Do you have a reference for this?

OK ... do you mean that they maybe the proximate cause of an event or something else?

I am in Ibiza at the moment. I read it in Manly  P Halls book the secret teaching of all ages (I think, or something like that). I can try and look it up when I get back. Ment is Latin for of the mind. Although to be honest, etymological derivations are a bit iffy, so maybe I wouldn't stake my life on it being the correct one. 

By the second query,  I am not quite sure what you are asking. I meant something along the lines of that your actions are your own, and consequences of your choices. If there is morality, then you take on the moral consequences, if indeed there are any. I meant generally rather than with reference to something specific. 

[fruitvilla]

30 minutes ago, Seal said:

I am in Ibiza at the moment. I read it in Manly  P Halls book the secret teaching of all ages (I think, or something like that). I can try and look it up when I get back. Ment is Latin for of the mind. Although to be honest, etymological derivations are a bit iffy, so maybe I wouldn't stake my life on it being the correct one. 

Well enjoy the Med. Mens is Latin for mind. To me the suffix ment (from the Latin to make concrete) seems more likely. And dictionaries give Test and from the Latin Testis to witness seems more fitting.  I looked up Manly P Hall, an astrologer and mystic. I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling here.

38 minutes ago, Seal said:

By the second query,  I am not quite sure what you are asking. I meant something along the lines of that your actions are your own, and consequences of your choices. If there is morality, then you take on the moral consequences, if indeed there are any. I meant generally rather than with reference to something specific.

Yeah ... along those lines yes. We use responsible in couple of different ways. 

Say, the high slag content in the rivets was responsible for the loss of the ship.
versus the construction engineer not checking the slag content of rivets was responsible for the loss of the ship.

So how are moral consequences different from plain old consequences?

 

[Seal]

13 hours ago, fruitvilla said:

Well enjoy the Med. Mens is Latin for mind. To me the suffix ment (from the Latin to make concrete) seems more likely. And dictionaries give Test and from the Latin Testis to witness seems more fitting.  I looked up Manly P Hall, an astrologer and mystic. I don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling here.

Yeah ... along those lines yes. We use responsible in couple of different ways. 

Say, the high slag content in the rivets was responsible for the loss of the ship.
versus the construction engineer not checking the slag content of rivets was responsible for the loss of the ship.

So how are moral consequences different from plain old consequences?

 

hah, he is indeed an astrologer and a mystic, but then maybe so are some astro and quantum physicists in their own way! I would read his works though before criticising (although I would also say follow your intuition on things as well). It isn't who writes things that matters, but what they write. Mostly. For what it is worth, the book well worth reading if you have an interest in philosophy. It is one of those good ones where you can pick out an interesting chapter and ignore the ones that sound dull.   

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ment

"From Old Catalan -ment, from Latin mente, ablative singular of mēns (“mind”)."

I appreciate that this con fusion (fusing things together incorrectly?) arose from my spelling of mente as ment. Although I am now wondering whether there is more to the word cement than meets the eye. But that just means its time for a siesta. 

Etymological routes in the bible are often a blend of the Semitic languages, latin, and greek. But I am not disagreeing, you may indeed be right. And if you are I need to take responsibility for that and be better next time. I do find, however, that etymologies are one of the least exact of the not sciences. 

This is just my subjective usage, but I would say that if you said something nasty to someone and got a broken nose, then you suffer a plain old consequence. If you say something nasty to someone  damage your soul, then that would be a moral or spiritual consequence. IMHO. I guess Karma may be a bridge between the two in this analogy. In your slag example I would suggest the construction engineer need take ownership for his lack of action. Yet these are simplistic examples, I have no idea whether there is any sort of moral consequences. I have a lot of time for the concept of karma.

 

[mjmooney]

25 minutes ago, Seal said:

hah, he is indeed an astrologer and a mystic, but then maybe so are some astro and quantum physicists in their own way!

No. They aren't. 

[PussEKatt]

17 hours ago, Xann said:

If there is no sex in heaven,I dont want to go.

[Ingram85]

2 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

If there is no sex in heaven,I dont want to go.

There’s enough in the churches and cathedral to last for eternity as it is.

[PussEKatt]

Just now, Ingram85 said:

There’s enough in the churches and cathedral to last for eternity as it is.

Stop it or you will turn me into a relegious nut.

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, Ingram85 said:

There’s enough in the churches and cathedral to last for eternity as it is.

And the football academies, swimming clubs, gymnastics camps, scouts, schools, tv, prisons, and children’s homes.

You’d think at some point we’d work out there might be a basic flaw in the nature of some males and not the institutions.

[Rugeley Villa]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

And the football academies, swimming clubs, gymnastics camps, scouts, schools, tv, prisons, and children’s homes.

You’d think at some point we’d work out there might be a basic flaw in the nature of some males and not the institutions.

Strange how people go on about religious sex crimes when it’s just as rife in other places such as sport clubs etc. Unfortunately it’s a flaw as you say. 

[Xann]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

If there is no sex in heaven,I dont want to go.

You most likely won't have a penis, balls or a bladder when you're a multidimensional being.

This Old Testament angel does have eyes though, so I guess we can't completely rule organs out?

 

[limpid]

48 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Strange how people go on about religious sex crimes when it’s just as rife in other places such as sport clubs etc. Unfortunately it’s a flaw as you say. 

Sports clubs don't claim to be acting on behalf of an all powerful deity who can punish a victim for eternity.

[Rugeley Villa]

4 minutes ago, limpid said:

Sports clubs don't claim to be acting on behalf of an all powerful deity who can punish a victim for eternity.

True . My point being it happens everywhere and none are any better than the other regardless of who’s acting on behalf of who .

[limpid]

10 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

True . My point being it happens everywhere and none are any better than the other regardless of who’s acting on behalf of who .

Agreed. Sports clubs don't have policies of silently moving offenders to another region without punishment.

[fruitvilla]

12 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

True . My point being it happens everywhere and none are any better than the other regardless of who’s acting on behalf of who

You are missing the point ... which is there is (or appears to be) a much higher density of these sexual incidents in the clergy or those put in charge of our pastoral care. 

When a sports coach does it the media revel in it just as much.