villa4europe Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 24 minutes ago, pas5898 said: Barca: Already had a great team build by Rijkaard + Xavi, inieta And Messi. a massive nope, he had to tear barca up and start again fortunately he got to start again with xavi, iniesta, messi and busquets and then in transfer window 1 bought pique and dani alves...but he did a massive rebuild there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, villa4europe said: a massive nope, he had to tear barca up and start again fortunately he got to start again with xavi, iniesta, messi and busquets and then in transfer window 1 bought pique and dani alves...but he did a massive rebuild there Puyol, Abidal, Etoo, Henry, Marquez. They had one of the top 3 squads in Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: Puyol, Abidal, Etoo, Henry, Marquez. They had one of the top 3 squads in Europe They were barely top 3 in la liga in his final season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: They were barely top 3 in la liga in his final season... Teams have bad seasons. Chelsea finished 11th or something a few seasons back Its just a myth that Barcelona were so shit until Pep turned up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, Zatman said: Teams have bad seasons. Chelsea finished 11th or something a few seasons back Its just a myth that Barcelona were so shit until Pep turned up barca 07/08 to 08/09 is one of the biggest swings in recent footballing history barca were an absolute mess under rijkaard, too many big names under performing, going nowhere to doing the treble in a year you can dislike pep all you like but you cant discredit it 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, villa4europe said: barca 07/08 to 08/09 is one of the biggest swings in recent footballing history barca were an absolute mess under rijkaard, too many big names under performing, going nowhere to doing the treble in a year you can dislike pep all you like but you cant discredit it Season before they came 3rd and a wonder goal from the champions league final. If thats a mess then i will take that Hardly Leicester 2016 or even West Ham last season turn around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 55 minutes ago, villa4europe said: a massive nope, he had to tear barca up and start again fortunately he got to start again with xavi, iniesta, messi and busquets and then in transfer window 1 bought pique and dani alves...but he did a massive rebuild there Is it a massive rebuild if you have 3-4 of the worlds top players already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: Is it a massive rebuild if you have 3-4 of the worlds top players already? Yes They weren't the world's top players when he took over, they were great players full of potential but look at who he kicked out and then brought in to the first team And then smashed the treble playing incredible football in his first season Too many are too stubborn to see any kind of achievement in it If someone took over from Ole at utd and won the treble next year would we all say that's one hell of an achievement or just shrug and say utd we're brilliant anyway... What if they did it with a 7 or 8 player turnover and a complete change in style? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZZAM Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Bayern is the big one. Lewandowski has massively improved since Pep left same with Muller, Pep started his slump. A lot of the players were delighted he left As for City they have the biggest budget so he hasnt done anything special in England. Its like somebody saying Brendan Rodgers did great at Celtic That Bayern team should've conquered Europe for atleast 5 years it absolutely dominated that season under Heynckes. Pep came in and destroyed it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 34 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Yes They weren't the world's top players when he took over, they were great players full of potential but look at who he kicked out and then brought in to the first team And then smashed the treble playing incredible football in his first season Too many are too stubborn to see any kind of achievement in it If someone took over from Ole at utd and won the treble next year would we all say that's one hell of an achievement or just shrug and say utd we're brilliant anyway... What if they did it with a 7 or 8 player turnover and a complete change in style? Spain had just won Euro 2008 by dominating midfield and Messi was already world class but had fitness doubts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2021 47 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Yes They weren't the world's top players when he took over, they were great players full of potential but look at who he kicked out and then brought in to the first team And then smashed the treble playing incredible football in his first season Too many are too stubborn to see any kind of achievement in it If someone took over from Ole at utd and won the treble next year would we all say that's one hell of an achievement or just shrug and say utd we're brilliant anyway... What if they did it with a 7 or 8 player turnover and a complete change in style? It's amazing how lucky such a shit manager has gotten isn't it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 2 hours ago, pas5898 said: Got absolutely annilhated online for this. But I stand by it. What Sean Dyche has done at Burnley is harder than what Pep has done at Barca, Bayern and Man City. No wonder you got annihilated to be fair 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2021 2 hours ago, pas5898 said: Got absolutely annilhated online for this. But I stand by it. What Sean Dyche has done at Burnley is harder than what Pep has done at Barca, Bayern and Man City. No. Sorry just no. Why isn't Sean Dyche being hired by Chelsea and Man City then? If you put Sean Dyche in charge of Man City when Pep took over would he have had the same success? I'd say it's very very VERY unlikely he'd have had anywhere near the sort of success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted October 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2021 30 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I'd say it's very very VERY unlikely he'd have had anywhere near the sort of success 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 I don't agree with the Sean Dyche thing. I do think Pep is over hyped. I'd say what Wenger did at Arsenal and Klopp with Liverpool is more impressive than anything Pep has achieved. No other manager has had things as easy as Pep. From inheriting truly world class players, to being in a one team league and being given a billion pounds to buy players. He's never had to work under difficult conditions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I don't agree with the Sean Dyche thing. I do think Pep is over hyped. I'd say what Wenger did at Arsenal and Klopp with Liverpool is more impressive than anything Pep has achieved. No other manager has had things as easy as Pep. From inheriting truly world class players, to being in a one team league and being given a billion pounds to buy players. He's never had to work under difficult conditions. Zidane 3 Champions Leagues and 2 league titles in a combined 4 years at Real. Nobody has labelled him a genius. Ancelotti another one even though he made Italian football more attack minded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I don't agree with the Sean Dyche thing. I do think Pep is over hyped. I'd say what Wenger did at Arsenal and Klopp with Liverpool is more impressive than anything Pep has achieved. No other manager has had things as easy as Pep. From inheriting truly world class players, to being in a one team league and being given a billion pounds to buy players. He's never had to work under difficult conditions. Aside from, of course, the massive weight of expectation which, ultimately, causes most "elite" managers to be out of a job very quickly. He has a win percentage of over 72% for his entire managerial career - currently 72.7% at Man City. For context here, Alex Ferguson's win record at Man Utd was just shy of 60% during a period in which (I would argue) it was 'easier' for Man Utd to win the league than it is for any team currently. People would - quite rightly - regard Ferguson as one of the greatest ever. His critics will say he should win the Champions League more regularly - probably quite rightly, and I'm sure he thinks the same too - but it smells a bit of the whole "Messi hasn't won something with Argentina" scenario. It's much harder to establish domestic dominance (well, not in Germany) than to win the Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Zatman said: Zidane 3 Champions Leagues and 2 league titles in a combined 4 years at Real. Nobody has labelled him a genius. Ancelotti another one even though he made Italian football more attack minded You're kidding me saying that Ancelotti isn't regarded as one of the best managers out there Interesting point on Zidane - I suppose the answer would be... how do his teams play? What has he implemented that worked particularly well? People tend to know how Guardiola or Klopp or Ancelotti or Mourinho or Tuchel or Simeone sides will play; they have a bit of a philosophy to them. What does a Zidane team look like? I have no idea, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Aside from, of course, the massive weight of expectation which, ultimately, causes most "elite" managers to be out of a job very quickly. He has a win percentage of over 72% for his entire managerial career - currently 72.7% at Man City. For context here, Alex Ferguson's win record at Man Utd was just shy of 60% during a period in which (I would argue) it was 'easier' for Man Utd to win the league than it is for any team currently. People would - quite rightly - regard Ferguson as one of the greatest ever. His critics will say he should win the Champions League more regularly - probably quite rightly, and I'm sure he thinks the same too - but it smells a bit of the whole "Messi hasn't won something with Argentina" scenario. It's much harder to establish domestic dominance (well, not in Germany) than to win the Champions League. Yeah I do agree with the expectation thing but Bayern and City both seem to let him off with failures in the champions league. Would all managers get the same? He's a very good manager but I just think he gets way too overhyped. He literally has everything at his disposal. I don't think you can manage the greatest player of all time and have a billion pounds in spending money and not have those things mentioned when talking about success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: Aside from, of course, the massive weight of expectation which, ultimately, causes most "elite" managers to be out of a job very quickly. He has a win percentage of over 72% for his entire managerial career - currently 72.7% at Man City. For context here, Alex Ferguson's win record at Man Utd was just shy of 60% during a period in which (I would argue) it was 'easier' for Man Utd to win the league than it is for any team currently. People would - quite rightly - regard Ferguson as one of the greatest ever. His critics will say he should win the Champions League more regularly - probably quite rightly, and I'm sure he thinks the same too - but it smells a bit of the whole "Messi hasn't won something with Argentina" scenario. It's much harder to establish domestic dominance (well, not in Germany) than to win the Champions League. To be fair, I'd imagine Alex Ferguson's win percentage to be heavily affected by his first 6 seasons where United's average finish was something like 9th. There were 2 seasons in 89-90 where his win % was 34% for example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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