Chelsea

[villa4europe]

10 hours ago, sharkyvilla said:

Who the **** lost 3-0 to one of his teams?  

its great being able to ask that kind of question knowing full well its not villa for once

[HKP90]

9 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Lampard’s record is understandably getting a lot of attention but it’s worth looking at Chelsea’s run of results in 2023, all competitions.

DLLLWDDDLLLWWWDLDLLLLLL

Played 23 

Won 4

Drawn 6

Lost 13

Goals for 14

Goals against 30

Points 15 (from 18 league games)

For those curious the three wins in a row were Leeds, Dortmund and Leicester. They then drew with Everton and lost to us. 

 

How the f*** did that team beat Dortmund?

[Demitri_C]

[avfc1982am]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Being a white ex footballer (a good one) is a huge asset if you want to be in the management game

Not sure what colour has to do with it tbh. If more black ex pros like Viera, Kompany, Ince decided to go into management this nonsense about colour wouldn't get brought up.

If you go to Asia, most the coaches are Asian, Africa and most the coaches are African, South America and most are Latino...etc. Colour has nothing to do with it. He got the job, rightly or wrongly on his links to the club not the colour of his skin.   

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

Not sure what colour has to do with it tbh. If more black ex pros like Viera, Kompany, Ince decided to go into management this nonsense about colour wouldn't get brought up. 

I think it's pretty obvious that it helps to be white when it comes to opportunities in football management in England.

You think Ince would have got 3 premier league jobs in a row despite failing miserably in all of them?

Will we see Vieira get another opportunity at a top club if he doesn't prove himself elsewhere? I doubt it

Edited May 3, 2023 by Stevo985

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

If you go to Asia, most the coaches are Asian, Africa and most the coaches are African, South America and most are Latino...etc

Unless you think i'm suggesting black managers aren't English or European then I'm not sure how this is relevant

Edited May 3, 2023 by Stevo985

[villa4europe]

40 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think it's pretty obvious that it helps to be white when it comes to opportunities in football management in England.

You think Ince would have got 3 premier league jobs in a row despite failing miserably in all of them?

Will we see Vieira get another opportunity at a top club if he doesn't prove himself elsewhere? I doubt it

i think its more being english, being an ex england and PL "legend" undeniably helps in getting the managerial role

then stop to think how many ex england and PL legends just so happen to be white....literally the only black candidate is sol campbell, maybe ashley cole depending on what badges he has, and campbell isnt on par with lampard and gerrard or rooney in terms of status in the game

if say rio ferdinand had his badges and couldnt get these roles, or ledley king had his badges and couldnt get the spurs gig over mason then i think you'd have a point but there's no comparative black player / manager IMO, there's not that many black players getting the status of frank lampard in english football

[avfc1982am]

15 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think it's pretty obvious that it helps to be white when it comes to opportunities in football management in England.

You think Ince would have got 3 premier league jobs in a row despite failing miserably in all of them?

Will we see Vieira get another opportunity at a top club if he doesn't prove himself elsewhere? I doubt it

No I think what helps is going into management at any level is building a CV. If more black English players decided to go into management when their careers on the pitch finish then the numbers wouldn't be as skewed. Ince hasn't done anything of real note as a manager so why would he even be discussed as getting one PL job is ridiculous. I see you didn't mention Kompany though as he is currently flavour of the month and has been touted for bigger jobs off his success at Burnley.  

As for Lampard, his did well ish at Derby, Relatively well at Chelsea in his first stint and kept Everton up last season, so not a complete failure in some people eyes during those periods. Like I said obviously he got the job mostly because of his links and familiarity to the club and it will be the last PL job he will get without rebuilding his CV, same as Gerrard. Nobody is lining him up to give him a job after this escapade.

Also, you don't see JFHasslebank or Drogba stepping up asking for a job so I don't know why you needed to raise colour as an issue when there isn't the applicant pool  in the first place. Unless you count Dwight Yorke as credible lol. 

 

  

 

[avfc1982am]

5 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

i think its more being english, being an ex england and PL "legend" undeniably helps in getting the managerial role

then stop to think how many ex england and PL legends just so happen to be white....literally the only black candidate is sol campbell, maybe ashley cole depending on what badges he has, and campbell isnt on par with lampard and gerrard or rooney in terms of status in the game

if say rio ferdinand had his badges and couldnt get these roles, or ledley king had his badges and couldnt get the spurs gig over mason then i think you'd have a point but there's no comparative black player / manager IMO, there's not that many black players getting the status of frank lampard in english football

This is the bottom line. The pool of applicants isn't big enough in the first place. 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, avfc1982am said:

No I think what helps is going into management at any level is building a CV. If more black English players decided to go into management when their careers on the pitch finish then the numbers wouldn't be as skewed. Ince hasn't done anything of real note as a manager so why would he even be discussed as getting one PL job is ridiculous.

 

Lampard hasn't done anything of note as a manager either. He did ok at Derby, failed at 2 premier league jobs and still got a 3rd.

Ince has done a decent job as manager of Championship clubs, failed at a PL job and has seemingly never had a sniff at another PL job. I'd say it's a pretty decent comparison

1 hour ago, avfc1982am said:

I see you didn't mention Kompany though as he is currently flavour of the month and has been touted for bigger jobs off his success at Burnley.  

 

 

I don't see the relevance. I'm not saying black players can't be managers. Kompany is doing a great job, I'm sure he'll get a better job.

The question is if he'd failed at two premier league jobs would he get a third? 

1 hour ago, avfc1982am said:

Also, you don't see JFHasslebank or Drogba stepping up asking for a job so I don't know why you needed to raise colour as an issue when there isn't the applicant pool  in the first place. Unless you count Dwight Yorke as credible lol. 

Again this isn't relevant to my point at all

[Mic09]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think it's pretty obvious that it helps to be white when it comes to opportunities in football management in England.

You could argue that it helps to be black in being a professional footballer in England considering the % of population. 

There are so many variables in who becomes a manager at PL level (''he knows the club'' Lampard being a prime example) that I think blaming race as a key factor is a short-sighted analysis of the problem. 

[avfc1982am]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Lampard hasn't done anything of note as a manager either. He did ok at Derby, failed at 2 premier league jobs and still got a 3rd.

Ince has done a decent job as manager of Championship clubs, failed at a PL job and has seemingly never had a sniff at another PL job. I'd say it's a pretty decent comparison

I don't see the relevance. I'm not saying black players can't be managers. Kompany is doing a great job, I'm sure he'll get a better job.

The question is if he'd failed at two premier league jobs would he get a third? 

Again this isn't relevant to my point at all

We'll without continuing to go on and go around in circles and arguing about what you see as relevant and what I do, my original comments still stands. I think your comments regarding colour are absolute nonsense. 

[villa4europe]

19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Lampard hasn't done anything of note as a manager either. He did ok at Derby, failed at 2 premier league jobs and still got a 3rd.

Ince has done a decent job as manager of Championship clubs, failed at a PL job and has seemingly never had a sniff at another PL job. I'd say it's a pretty decent comparison

the problem there is believing that he was appointed for anything that he did as a manager 

this is still an appointment made based on frank lampard the player, not just that but frank lampard the chelsea player

ince doesnt have that benefit because he wasnt as good a player let alone that good for a specific club, he's not a legend at utd or did anything of any note for england, his playing career doesnt compare, not even close

[Tommo_b]

Is it mathematically still possible Chelsea could get relegated with 4 games to go?

Surreal sentence to type after the last 20 years they have had. 

[Villatillidie95]

14 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Is it mathematically still possible Chelsea could get relegated with 4 games to go?

Surreal sentence to type after the last 20 years they have had. 

I've looked it up and whilst it is technically possible, its extrmely unlikely (unfortunately, would be hilarious). Chelsea would need to lose all 4 of their remaining games, which is certainly possible considering they play 3 out of the top 4, however, Forest, Leciester and Leeds would also need to get 10 points from their remaining games. In addition, Bournemouth, Wolves and West Ham would need to get enough points to overtake Chelsea.

[Davkaus]

17 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

the problem there is believing that he was appointed for anything that he did as a manager 

this is still an appointment made based on frank lampard the player, not just that but frank lampard the chelsea player

ince doesnt have that benefit because he wasnt as good a player let alone that good for a specific club, he's not a legend at utd or did anything of any note for england, his playing career doesnt compare, not even close

Agreed. He also wouldn't be getting this chance at any other club, 2 of those 3 failed appointments come at Chelsea based on "let's get a name in for a while who'll keep the fans on side". 

[bobzy]

7 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

You could argue that it helps to be black in being a professional footballer in England considering the % of population. 

There are so many variables in who becomes a manager at PL level (''he knows the club'' Lampard being a prime example) that I think blaming race as a key factor is a short-sighted analysis of the problem. 

There was some study done a few years back and the breakdown was something like 12% of the UK population is BME, 25% of professional footballers are BME but there were only 2 BME managers at the time (2.1%), BME coaches made up something like 3.3% (mostly development coaches) yet 6.5% of FA UEFA Pro Licensed coaches were BME (higher proportions on lower level badges).

Can't remember what the exact outcome was, but there's basically less opportunity as a BME person after a professional football career.  It doesn't seem like much has changed either:

 

"Denton, who also works as a coach developer for the FA, adds: “There are so many talented young black coaches who are hungry to get into the game. But I could reel off many of them who are out of football right now or looking for a better job than they’ve got. These are hard-working black coaches who have experience at the highest level that should put them on a level playing field with the other people who are moving from club to club.”

(Link:  https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/11/something-is-not-right-odds-remain-loaded-against-black-football-managers)

 

But also, what will Chelsea do?!

[Mark Albrighton]

5 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

or did anything of any note for england, 

Off topic but I imagine you would receive a similar response from people ten years older than myself if it was suggested Terry Butcher didn’t do anything of note for England.

[bobzy]

23 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

the problem there is believing that he was appointed for anything that he did as a manager 

this is still an appointment made based on frank lampard the player, not just that but frank lampard the chelsea player

ince doesnt have that benefit because he wasnt as good a player let alone that good for a specific club, he's not a legend at utd or did anything of any note for england, his playing career doesnt compare, not even close

He was only the first black England captain (fitting after the convo above!).

[villa4europe]

Come on Paul Inces standing in English football is nowhere near Frank lampards, not even close

You're talking about a guy who would be in the conversation, you're talking about a guy who rightly or wrongly would be in the conversation for best PL midfielder  ever

Throw Gerrard in too, the only black English players that come close to their reputation are Cole and Rio, no one else is anywhere near