Harry Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I don't think for the vast majority of fans the fact that McLeish came from Blues is the issue, its the fact he is the worst manager in the PL. I would rather have any other current manager than him. The trouble is the media can't get past the protests that took place when he was appointed. As far as I can recall most of the protesters interviewed by the media went on about the fact they did not want an ex Blues manager. As for the protests the biggest protest is already up and running and that is attendances which will be massively compounded by a dramatic fall in next season's season ticket sales. I still hold to my original scarf suggestion as if enough do it the media will pick up on it. Imagine thousands of scarfs around the edge of the pitch. As it is I don't want the scarf anyway. The concept of a 'Bright Future' is so laughable now you would only every where it in a ironical sense and the Yanks don't do irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 My concern is any campaign geared towards removing "the Scottish Ginger blight" from our club will merely result in a glorified article on the OS proclaiming how the club has sucessfully engaged with fans over the removal of Irn-Bru from the vending machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Lerner probably truly believes Mcleish is a capable manager to keep us in the prem (fergie letter, success in Scotland) and TBH this season he will probably be correct. I think Lerner is done with villa, until he can sell he needs to cut costs and keep the club in the premier league. With his demand for premier league experience the list of managers who a) Lerner deems good enough and are willing to work in such pathetic conditions is probably very small. So Lerner probably sees little sense in trying to replace Mcleish. Like I said, all protests should be aimed at the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Like I said, all protests should be aimed at the owner.Why not both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Because under Lerners ambitions do you think we will get a good enough replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2012 I don't think Lerner can afford the ambitions we'd like for him to have, nor those he arrived with - when he arrived an investment of £100m over three or four seasons would give you a shot at the top four - I'd say that's tripled at the very least and you'd probably need a £100m a year just to get in amongst the top six. I think at the same time as competing at the right end has gotten more expensive, Lerner's expensive divorce has made him less able to afford it. Couple that with the poor attendances even when we were successful (and indeed the feeling that the success we had was only just about acceptable to the fanbase) the ability for the club to generate the income required to push on by itself doesn't seem to be there either. In truth, I worry that we're not as big a club as we like to believe and that we don't have an owner who can single handedly change that. I don't believe he's stopped caring, I just think he's stuck in the same mess as the rest of us - he could pop in another £20m a year, but it wouldn't get us more than being at the right end of the best of the rest. Maybe it's better to keep his powder dry, hope the fair play rules make some sort of difference and look for a little bit of luck somewhere that helps us along. The club has worked hard to maximise its income and continues to do so, but it's battling against a tide of indifference that's hard to turn. He's made a very poor choice in terms of manager, right now, we should be looking at a manager who can build a future, not one who can cling on to what we have - and whilst I'm not by nature a creature of protest I can certainly understand he movement to have him removed. Protesting against the owner on the other hand won't make him any richer, nor will it change where the game is at the moment, and I'm not in favour. We claimed we wanted an owner that cared, that had our values at heart, that wanted to keep the club safe, that wanted to invest in our future and that shared our ambitions - we claimed we wanted an owner that was for want of a better word, good - and if we got one we claimed we'd fill Villa Park week in and week out. We lied on both counts - when it was good we barely sold out and when it was bad, it transpired that the only quality we really sought in an owner was the basest of all - rich. I'm not prepared to protest against him on that basis. The manager on the other hand can go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 We claimed we wanted an owner that cared, that had our values at heart, that wanted to keep the club safe, that wanted to invest in our future and that shared our ambitions - we claimed we wanted an owner that was for want of a better word, good - and if we got one we claimed we'd fill Villa Park week in and week out. We lied on both counts - when it was good we barely sold out and when it was bad, it transpired that the only quality we really sought in an owner was the basest of all - rich. thats a really good couple of paragraphs, and i have to agree. our fan base is much smaller than we had imagined, and money is a much stronger lure than we ever expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm sorry but the point on the attendances is simply incorrect. We saw an increase in our average attendance of almost 8000 over 3 seasons peaking with an average attendance of over 40'000. If Lerner was banking on better than that then I think he was at best naive especially given the size of the stadium. The fans were turning up, selling our best players and the economic problems from 2008 though had an impact. On the issue of the owners wealth, I disagree Scott. You say we all wanted an owner that cared, well I'd actually argue that Ellis probably cared a damn sight more than Lerner ever will. In Ellis we had a poor business man and many of us wanted better, we wanted someone with some vision. We thought we had that in Lerner, we didn't we simply had someone with perhaps even worse judgement, the same inability to employ people around him capable of making up for his short falls but a lot more money. The ability of O'Neill and Randy's spending power fooled us all for a while but once the spending stopped we all started to see what the Browns fans were complaining about the whole time. I'm realistic I never expected Randy to keep spending the way he did in those early years but I did expect him to show a bit more basic common sense and business acumen than to appoint McLeish and set the club back years on and off the pitch. It isn't all about money with Lerner just as the same as it isn't about Blues with McLeish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2012 It isn't all about money with Lerner just as the same as it isn't about Blues with McLeish. Apples and oranges - for me, and in most of what I read, it is all about the money with Lerner, just as it's all about the football with McLeish. I think prior to Lerner's arrival and indeed shortly after, we were all convinced that we could sell Villa Park out on a regular basis, that with a bit of success there'd be a waiting list for season tickets and that matchday tickets would be gold dust - it never happened. Attendances were excellent for us, but nowhere near where Newcastle or Man City or Liverpool or Arsenal or Tottenham or United would be given a similar set of circumstances - in terms of support I think we'd hoped we'd be top six and I suspect we're more like top ten - I was disappointed, I'd imagine the owners were too. It was a reality check that put paid to the North Stand and maybe one or two other dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si. Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 He is the footballing equivalent of boycott Geoffrey?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think prior to Lerner's arrival and indeed shortly after, we were all convinced that we could sell Villa Park out on a regular basis, that with a bit of success there'd be a waiting list for season tickets and that matchday tickets would be gold dust - it never happened. Did we? I'm sure some thought that perhaps but I'm sure many were far more realistic and I would have hoped that applied to the owner and those working for him as well. I forget the exact figure but I'm fairly certain the average attendance increased by around 8000 in three years and as I said previously peaked at 40k. How with a capacity of 42k could that have been much better? Sure they often discounted some tickets but that happened far less frequently back then than it has in recent years. Attendances were excellent for us, but nowhere near where Newcastle or Man City or Liverpool or Arsenal or Tottenham or United would be given a similar set of circumstances - in terms of support I think we'd hoped we'd be top six and I suspect we're more like top ten - I was disappointed, I'd imagine the owners were too. It was a reality check that put paid to the North Stand and maybe one or two other dreams. Actually the attendances weren't that far behind Liverpool, were better than Spurs and similar to City at the time but obviously they couldn't get close to Arsenal or United. We spent 10-15 years under Ellis watching fans drifting away, watching their kids choose United or Chelsea. Did anyone really think we could suddenly increase attendance to match the likes of United? Even if we could we simply didn't have the capacity. Now if you were talking about match day revenue I might agree with you but in terms of attendances, pure numbers coming through the turnstiles then I really don't think that Lerner can have too many complaints especially in the first 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I could stomach Mcleish - if he could sign some decent players and win a fair quota of home matches. I am not expecting world domination. I could stomach Lerner - even if didn't spend millions - I just want to see him at the ground now and again - and put the time and effort in to appoint a decent manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangeways Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I could stomach Mcleish - if he could sign some decent players and win a fair quota of home matches. I am not expecting world domination. I could stomach Lerner - even if didn't spend millions - I just want to see him at the ground now and again - and put the time and effort in to appoint a decent manager Could you stomach relegation............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houllierout Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 #boycottvp or accept the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejoker Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Talking Villa on Talksport now....VillaFansUnited are on at 4.20 ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Villa fans putting points across very well so far. I miss my club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Villa fans putting points across very well so far. I miss my club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philthevillan Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 How about we join in with the Blackburn fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 How about we join in with the Blackburn fans? in demanding Kean out? their protests have hardly been helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philthevillan Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 How about we join in with the Blackburn fans? in demanding Kean out? their protests have hardly been helpful I was thinking in demanding our manager out during the impending protest at their ground. Not sure Kean is our concern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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