steaknchips Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Its very disappointing as a fan to see what we could have become...Had we all got behind him and seen the light and been patient, we may still have had him involved at the club. Too many fans are too rash to dismiss him when he was at the early stages of building something. McLeish is the man we are now left with, who in comparison cant build Sh1t..And this thread is all about who is the better manger> McLeish is a nothing in comparison..He wouldnt know the 1st idea on how to set up a club to become Europe's best..Houllier at least had this quality.. Mate... The bloke had a heart attack.. He loves the game and was still willing to be involved. We didnt need to pay him off and then pay Blues off to sign McLeish..What was the rush? We had a "very capable" team in Duverne, Cowans, G'Mac etc..Houllier could still have been the daddy behind the scenes..Its like his interview ive posted above, clairefontaine is there to coach, coaches..The stuff G'Mac, Cowans and even K'Mac could and would have learnt from Houllier would be top drawer stuff...Far better than the current set up with McLeish and Grant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Steak, let's face it Houllier **** up last season quite badly and we finished 9th which was flattering considering our season as a whole. From what I saw we were heading to the Championship until Houllier reverted back to the style of play that MON employed and abandoned the tippy tappy bollocks and played our strongest players in their strongest positions. I don't care about what Houllier did in 1996 or 2001 or 2006, what he did to us last year was stupid! Having some arty farty interview about a bullshit job at the FF is just that bullshit! Saying that I agree AM is a rubbish appointment and he is incapable of pushing the club forward (as any manager would struggle to do with our boards policies at the moment!!) For this poll to be worthy I want a button for MON or none of the above they are all tossers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 O'Neills retro football had run its course and the Chelsea thumping was indicative of much damage he'd done to the club with nothing to show for it. We're still recovering from the aftershock of his, on balance, awful transfer policy. If Houllier had had the preseason and run of games AMc has had I reckon we'd be on more points than we are now, but to try and compare GH and AM now is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Look last season wasnt pretty, it was a team totally in transistion and that transistion was painful. Some of the senior pros were upset and got abusive which then has an impact on the camp. Two things can happen, either the manager rebuilds the squad with his people which I think Houllier would have done, or player power wins and the manager leaves. To some extent, the latter happened and we, as Aston Villa fans will suffer due to that for the next decade or so. It takes time to implement change, to build a foundation. It took Barcelona 20 years of tooing and froing before Cryuffs "total football" actually manifested itself in the current team. You have to have faith, believe in what you are doing and stick to it, through bad and good times. To sum up England and the way our fans think, I heard Gareth Southgate say something like this about kids football: Jonny, gets the ball in defence and under pressure lumps it out for a throw in. All the parents clap and say "Well done Jonny, great clearance". The next time he gets the ball, in this case with time on the ball, what do you think he does? Bring it down and play it, or lump it out?" Of course he lumps it out again. That is the fundamental problem with kids football and it permeates through our game. Overseas they are taught to bring the ball down under pressure and play it. They will concede goals and make mistakes, but that is the learning process. You learn nothing by lumping it 60 yards or over the stand. We are a no nonesense country playing no nonesense football which is what we will get from McLeish. Houllier offered us a chance of a footballing philosophy, particular with our kids coming through. Opportunity of a generation wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Can someone tell me what it was that houllier was trying to do and why it was such a great thing? And is there actually any evidence to prove this great thing houllier was building or is it all based on steak and chips love for him and interviews he did years ago? Was he implementing new tactics? Well no he wasn't, MON in Pre season changed the formation and tried young in the hole, k mac continued with that and so did houllier. He stuck with it for over 20 games until we were in real trouble and then woke up. Also he refused to do anything about the defence. Now I'm now footballing genius like mr houllier but I would have thought building a new great style of football would require a certain amount of time solving obvious weaknesses which the great houllier failed to do. Was he trying to implement this new great style using youth? Well he played young players because he had to and dropped them pretty much as soon as the senior players returned. His style of football was pathetic, it was possession football in areas that weren't a danger to the opposition. His defence was set up in a shambolic way. He destroyed team spirit, any fight the team had to get back into games and was an embarrassment in the press and towards the fans. Now there are stats, facts, games and results to show all that so I frankly couldn't give a shit that houllier fan number 1 posts interviews from years ago or makes up his own bullshit. Houllier was one of the worst appointments this club ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 We're still recovering from the aftershock of his, on balance, awful transfer policy. er yes we are recovering from selling Milner, Young and Downing. Terrible purchases each and every one. MON wasn’t quite as bad as you make out. Awful in some aspects of his transfers, great in others. You say “on balance”, well that would suggest a degree of impartiality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 in the short term it seems AM is shit shit attendance shit style of football shit squad compaired to what he had we have the easiest start to a season ever, 7 out of the first 8 are against teams we would each season expect points from in 5 more league games lets see where we are because any less than 15 points will mean we are in for an almighty shit season that not even the turd polishers can excuse ( they will try some how) 20 odd players lighter than last season worse crowds worse football 1/2 the fans not behind the manager none of the board behind the manager and we are only 3 league games into the new season GH made some **** ups, he also got us playing decent football, unfortunately it didnt fit in with half the team who are used to hoofball and they all went off crying like over paid bitches because they didnt have it all their own way GH got rid of alot of the high earners who were not being used such as siidwell, davies and carew so he had started the chopping, while still having the managerial pull to attract darren bent to the club we looked further than scotish premier league and premier league for players which would save us money on wages and fees what have we got to look forward to at the moment? hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooof and hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDuck Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Houllier offered us a chance of a footballing philosophy, particular with our kids coming through. Opportunity of a generation wasted. **** me, if bringing in a semi-retired manager with heart issues, foot in mouth disease and an apparent inability to solve basic defensive problems was the opportunity of a generation then things are a lot worse than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steaknchips Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Can someone tell me what it was that houllier was trying to do and why it was such a great thing? And is there actually any evidence to prove this great thing houllier was building or is it all based on steak and chips love for him and interviews he did years ago? Was he implementing new tactics? Well no he wasn't, MON in Pre season changed the formation and tried young in the hole, k mac continued with that and so did houllier. He stuck with it for over 20 games until we were in real trouble and then woke up. Also he refused to do anything about the defence. Now I'm now footballing genius like mr houllier but I would have thought building a new great style of football would require a certain amount of time solving obvious weaknesses which the great houllier failed to do. Was he trying to implement this new great style using youth? Well he played young players because he had to and dropped them pretty much as soon as the senior players returned. His style of football was pathetic, it was possession football in areas that weren't a danger to the opposition. His defence was set up in a shambolic way. He destroyed team spirit, any fight the team had to get back into games and was an embarrassment in the press and towards the fans. Now there are stats, facts, games and results to show all that so I frankly couldn't give a shit that houllier fan number 1 posts interviews from years ago or makes up his own bullshit. Houllier was one of the worst appointments this club ever made. Of course he was implementing new tactics and a system..Despite a leaky defence last season, did you notice the movement and vision appearing in our young kids? Did you see Albrighton's goal and the build up v Man United? The movement and vision was awesome..This movement was happening in many games and being thread through the whole squad. This wont happen anymore..All you fans banging on about how crap Houllier was and that McLeish is great, you do realise our kids in outfield play, will be crap under McLeish? Delph has started this season, yet he looks lost, no much movement or vision, yet he can be great player..Houllier would turned him into a very decent midfielder and taught him about reading the game, movement, technical ability, vision etc..All he is leaning from Mcleish is to close down at every opportunity and try and pass to a fellow player or clear the ball if under pressure..There is nothing being built or any finese and its a generation of very promising young players gone to waste...Appointing McLeish has set us back years..You can forget Gardner, Bannan, Delph, Albrighton etc making it big now...Yet Houllier would have turned at least one of those into a world class player and all of them would at the very least turned into very decent Premierleague players.. Some fans knock the Man City line up in the FA Cup, without even realising why he chose that line up..Some fail to see the game was huge opportunity to try out some other players in the squad like Bradley out..The game was a competitive game where he could try out other players in the squad without it risking losing more points in a league game..He was expanding his squad and choices. He needed to see who else could step up if needed..The whole season was being used to build Villa for future...It was a transition season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 31, 2011 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2011 A transition to what? He nearly took us down. If Houllier was here now he would have no more money than McLeish has had for this 'transition' so I would love to know what he would have done. Actually no, scrap that I know what he would have done, he would have lost games. He would have shrugged his shoulders and blamed everyone else. He was totally incapable of getting the best out of the players he had and he wouldn't have been able to replace them so it would he have done? I'm sorry but this revisionist history of Houllier is utter bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackneyVillain Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Houllier for me too fwiw. I've nothing against McLeish but would have wanted GH to have had the summer to see if he could have turned us around. Which he couldn't have done because he wouldn't have had the money to spend and he had already shown he couldn't get the best out of what he had. Sorry, a bit late to reply but... We lost quite a bit of money paying compensation to both GH and then to Blose to get to our current situation. I imagine that would have been available but who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 31, 2011 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2011 Houllier for me too fwiw. I've nothing against McLeish but would have wanted GH to have had the summer to see if he could have turned us around. Which he couldn't have done because he wouldn't have had the money to spend and he had already shown he couldn't get the best out of what he had. Sorry, a bit late to reply but... We lost quite a bit of money paying compensation to both GH and then to Blose to get to our current situation. I imagine that would have been available but who knows... Fair point and one I'd not considered, but he couldn't have signed a new defence with that money and that is what we would have needed had he stayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackneyVillain Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Houllier for me too fwiw. I've nothing against McLeish but would have wanted GH to have had the summer to see if he could have turned us around. Which he couldn't have done because he wouldn't have had the money to spend and he had already shown he couldn't get the best out of what he had. Sorry, a bit late to reply but... We lost quite a bit of money paying compensation to both GH and then to Blose to get to our current situation. I imagine that would have been available but who knows... Fair point and one I'd not considered, but he couldn't have signed a new defence with that money and that is what we would have needed had he stayed. Yep, I guess we've lost somewhere between 6-9m (off the top of my head, no factual basis) and could have got a decent CB for that but not a new back 4. To be fair to AM it does appear he has succeeded where GH failed in sorting the defence but we have had an easy start to the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 31, 2011 Moderator Share Posted August 31, 2011 Yep, I guess we've lost somewhere between 6-9m (off the top of my head, no factual basis) and could have got a decent CB for that but not a new back 4. To be fair to AM it does appear he has succeeded where GH failed in sorting the defence but we have had an easy start to the season. yeah agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 GH made some **** ups, he also got us playing decent football, One can only imagine you don't go to the games because for those of us that do, I can promise you there was precious little of this good football you speak of. We created very little, players were out of position, Bent was just as isolated and we were an absolute shambles at the back. Had he have stayed, I don't think any of these things would've changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 This 'decent football' myth with Houllier. Like West Brom under Mowbray, they passed the ball well and got relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Some fans knock the Man City line up in the FA Cup, without even realising why he chose that line up..Some fail to see the game was huge opportunity to try out some other players in the squad like Bradley out..The game was a competitive game where he could try out other players in the squad without it risking losing more points in a league game..He was expanding his squad and choices. He needed to see who else could step up if needed..The whole season was being used to build Villa for future...It was a transition season. The Man City line-up was down to the fact that Houllier didn't think any team he put out could win the game and was content to save senior players for the league rather than make any attempt to compete. It was waving the white flag of surrender before the players even took to the field and that was the day I finally lost all patience with him. There was absolutely no need to rest players that, at the time, had only one other fixture to play within three weeks. It was nothing to do with the future. Many of the players had played before and we know the ones who have promise and those that are plainly not good enough. It was a disgraceful show of contempt for the Club and the supporters, especially those that paid to go up there. Any manager that doesn't believe Aston Villa are able to compete for the FA Cup, or that any trophy should not be treated as a priority, does not deserve to be in the job, simple as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 GH made some **** ups, he also got us playing decent football, One can only imagine you don't go to the games because for those of us that do, I can promise you there was precious little of this good football you speak of. We created very little, players were out of position, Bent was just as isolated and we were an absolute shambles at the back. Had he have stayed, I don't think any of these things would've changed. while some of it was annoying, such as downing on the right, stopping turning and over hitting a pass back to the defence who then hoofed it or petrov slowing the game down for no reason.. it was a complete change o football mentality from MON, rather than always looking for the ball over the top or counter attack football, we had good build up play and a mix of patient tappy footy and quick counter attacking. i dont enjoy us chasing the ball for 2 minutes and as soon as we get it, trying to hit it over the defence and run on to it, only for us to lose possesion again and another 2 minutes of chasing. that is what happened when we played decent teams, however with the different style of play it made it a more pleasant experience for me, knowing that when we had the ball we were keeping it more confidently and looking for the measured pass rather than the hopeful one. it didnt always work and it obviously was not collins and dunnes cup of tea, but for a complete change of footballing style it was not a bad attempt with 4 or 5 of the first team refusing to adapt to a different type of football. GH was not the be all and end all, he would have wanted more resources than he was clearly going to be given. this is probably why he left, medical reasons may have been quoted but im sure 4 out of 4 doctors who assessed him said he was good and villa kept going till they got one to say he was a duffer. kind of like what GT did when he went to wolves and wanted tony daley from villa, the club doctor wouldnt sign him off he said his knee was ****, so GT sacked the club doctor and got one in who would sign him off. i wouldnt have been sad to see GH stay and AM be his assistant but as it stands AM has proved nothing so far and it says alot when his own employers who have just given him a bumper contract refuse to back him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanvilla_1994 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 This 'decent football' myth with Houllier. Like West Brom under Mowbray, they passed the ball well and got relegated. And it wasn't decent football either, unless passing the ball backwards and sideways on the halfway line is entertaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 but as it stands AM has proved nothing so far and it says alot when his own employers who have just given him a bumper contract refuse to back him I don't think its a case of them refusing to him because they don't rate his judgment or because of anything he has or hasn't done since taking the job - more a case of him being selected in the first place as someone who would be more content to work under those kind of restrictions, which it now seems evident they were planning to implement for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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