Stevo985 Posted February 2, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 2, 2012 how exactly was dunne at fault for warnock's og??? Depends if he got a shout or not. If Warnock called for it and Dunne still jumped in front of him, then he should take part of the blame (but not all of it, it's still no excuse for Warnock sticking it in his own net) If there was no call then Dunne is faultless in my opinion. He couldn't have known Warnock was there and had no option but to try and head the ball. Not his fault he couldn't get there.IMO it is Dunne's fault he couldn't get there. That cross seemed to hang in the air a long time and Dunne needed to just position himself better and be quicker if he was going to go for it. It wasn't his only sluggish bit of movement by that point. As for whether there was a call and what that means in terms of blame, that's not even cut and dry either. If Dunne heard a call after he jumped, then avoided heading it out of hesitation or confusion, then that's more on Warnock for calling for a ball he wasn't certain how to deal with. It can be argued that the lack of a call put's it on Dunne's head, as I say, for deciding to go for a ball he should have been able to deal with but missed. Dunne could just have easily checked himself and called out 'that one's yours'. Whichever way, I'm in agreement with you that this isn't just a black and white case of Warnock being shit. I think it was just One Of Those Things but made all the more likely for our defence because their communication, organisation and confidence are all at such a low ebb. Yes. Don't get me wrong, Warnock IS shit. But Dunne MIGHT (emphasis on might) have SOME of the blame in that incident. And for anyone (CI) who thinks that I may have an agenda against Dunne, the opposite is true. Check the Dunne thread for me defending him. I like him and think he's a good defender (contrary to most on here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Dunne does always look drunk though Oh for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Warnock is not a "very good left back" - he is a very poor one. The own goal is just a start of many errors Did you miss the Swansea game ? The Everton "attempt" on our goal, the lovely through ball to RVP on Sunday. Even before this he was always only 5 mins away from conceding a stupif free kick or giving away possession cheaply. For the transfer fee and wages (£16 - 20 Million), its another splendid example of MON's gross negligence with the cheque book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It's uncanny, isn't it? (I stress that being Irish, appearing drunk, or being drunk are generally to be recommended in my view, except in the latter two cases for someone who plays as a defender for the football team you support.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Warnock is not a "very good left back" - he is a very poor one. The own goal is just a start of many errors Did you miss the Swansea game ? The Everton "attempt" on our goal, the lovely through ball to RVP on Sunday. Even before this he was always only 5 mins away from conceding a stupif free kick or giving away possession cheaply. For the transfer fee and wages (£16 - 20 Million), its another splendid example of MON's gross negligence with the cheque book (and has done since he has signed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie09 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I took my 7yo son there last night. We sat in the Lower Holte and watched the OG go in about 3 rows behind where it was. As soon as it happened there were loads of fans screaming abuse at Warnock, really nasty stuff he could quite obviously hear while lying on his back wanting the ground to swallow him up with a look of disbelief on his face. Then when all the other players (including Dunne) had walked off and left him there, it was only Given who went to him, put his arm on his shoulder and tried to offer some comfort. As he did that, the whole stand booed. It was absolutely sickening and I saw the shocked and upset look on my son's face, he couldn't understand how fans could turn on their player like that. I was 50/50 whether to just get up and walk out at that point, leaving the arseholes to their bile. We stuck it out only to hear Warnock getting booed on every touch, but a fantastic performance in the 2nd half. Obviously McLeish had a word with him at HT as he seemed really determined to put it right and him and Hutton were both great on the flanks in the 2nd half. I was left thinking last night that perhaps it wouldn't be a bad thing if we got relegated because hopefully the idiots would lose interest and only leave Villa to the real supporters. Great post about shameful behaviour. We can all lose our head and say things we shouldn't at a football match but to single out a play for such vitriol demonstrates a real lack of empathy from one human to another. We've all seen it before going back to the treatment meted out to Spink, Gage and Cascarino (although I have a lot less sympathy with him knowing what I now know). I'm not Warnock's biggest fan but the lad must be playing under enormous pressure at the moment knowing that the fans are going to jump on his back at the first sign of a hesitant pass. If you've ever played football you'll know how key confidence is in your overall performance and how a few bad passes can really set the tone for the rest of your performance. Imagine that with 30000 critics ready to unleash their venom upon you. I think he demonstrated incredible steel to put in the second half performance that he did under the circumstances. I think it's fair enough to say 'you pays your money your takes your choice' and football is an emotional game which is why it remains as popular as it is. But you also have to consider that you're dealing with human beings who make mistakes and have feelings. Agree wholeheartedly. As one poster said, there are too many 'fans' turning up hoping for Warnock to make a mistake just so that they can boo him. I'd suggest they look up the definition of supporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Dunne's Irishness doesn't bother me, it's the fact that he's a fat pisshead who can often be pretty shit at defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Dunne's Irishness doesn't bother me, it's the fact that he's a fat pisshead who can often be pretty shit at defending. He aint fat either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Watch the replay. Warnoc k should have done better, but Dunne didn't help at all by missing the ball like an moron and blocking his view. It was a freak own-goal, why cant people just accept it for what it is and move on. For **** sake...its not like he did it on purpose!!! He nearly scored an own goal in the last home game against Everton. The bloke is a disaster zone at the minute, costing us one goal a game so needs to be taken out of the team for an extended spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 GED got one thing right at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
returnofthemac Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Spoke to a few lads who booed, most I can tell you is through sheer frustration that McLeish continues to play one of the worst full backs ever to wear a Claret and Blue shirt. For me I still think a lot is aimed at the Manager who shows a worryingly common trait as MON....Obstinance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I don't turn up expecting/wanting/hoping to boo any player. But when I travel 110 miles either way, I do expect to turn up to see a decent performance from someone paid my annual salary in under 2 weeks to kick a ball round a park. Warnock was exceptionally lucky not to score a terrible own goal the other week, saved by a cracking reaction save from Given. This time he planted it past the keeper. Now I ask you this - find me another Premiership defender who has twice put a defensive header under no direct pressure towards his own goal in the space of a few weeks. In fact find me one who's done it twice in a whole bloody season. I admit, I booed. I shouted "take him off" loudly. I was f**king livid. Warnock's only saving grace is that he's actually better than Hutton - a defender who only gets in our team because he's from the same inconsequential second class nation as our manager. I'm not expecting us to win every week, I'm not expecting us to be in the Champions League. I am hoping that we look dangerous, look committed, look like we think we've got the ability to rule the world even if we can't. We looked pretty good for large parts of the match, and to be honest if one of their players had caught the ball on the QPR line, run up the pitch and thrown it into the goal I think the ref wouldnt have managed to find fault with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I took my 7yo son there last night. We sat in the Lower Holte and watched the OG go in about 3 rows behind where it was. As soon as it happened there were loads of fans screaming abuse at Warnock, really nasty stuff he could quite obviously hear while lying on his back wanting the ground to swallow him up with a look of disbelief on his face. Then when all the other players (including Dunne) had walked off and left him there, it was only Given who went to him, put his arm on his shoulder and tried to offer some comfort. As he did that, the whole stand booed. It was absolutely sickening and I saw the shocked and upset look on my son's face, he couldn't understand how fans could turn on their player like that. I was 50/50 whether to just get up and walk out at that point, leaving the arseholes to their bile. We stuck it out only to hear Warnock getting booed on every touch, but a fantastic performance in the 2nd half. Obviously McLeish had a word with him at HT as he seemed really determined to put it right and him and Hutton were both great on the flanks in the 2nd half. I was left thinking last night that perhaps it wouldn't be a bad thing if we got relegated because hopefully the idiots would lose interest and only leave Villa to the real supporters. Great post about shameful behaviour. We can all lose our head and say things we shouldn't at a football match but to single out a play for such vitriol demonstrates a real lack of empathy from one human to another. We've all seen it before going back to the treatment meted out to Spink, Gage and Cascarino (although I have a lot less sympathy with him knowing what I now know). I'm not Warnock's biggest fan but the lad must be playing under enormous pressure at the moment knowing that the fans are going to jump on his back at the first sign of a hesitant pass. If you've ever played football you'll know how key confidence is in your overall performance and how a few bad passes can really set the tone for the rest of your performance. Imagine that with 30000 critics ready to unleash their venom upon you. I think he demonstrated incredible steel to put in the second half performance that he did under the circumstances. I think it's fair enough to say 'you pays your money your takes your choice' and football is an emotional game which is why it remains as popular as it is. But you also have to consider that you're dealing with human beings who make mistakes and have feelings. Agree wholeheartedly. As one poster said, there are too many 'fans' turning up hoping for Warnock to make a mistake just so that they can boo him. I'd suggest they look up the definition of supporter. I feel really sorry for him too. I mean, playing a sport you love in a city you don't want to be in, for a club you aren't bothered about, for the last 3 years, earning around £6.2m in wages, whilst playing poorly and still being picked. Yeah, must be a right bummer that! I forgot to mention the pressure bit. It must be terrible pressure on the poor fella, worrying that another poor attempted clearance, lack of positioning or God forbid, attempted diving header past Given, might mean him being booed and dropped to the bench to pick up his £40,000 a week wages. Imagine if he worked in the real world and had to worry that he might perform brilliantly and still lose his job due to the recession? How would he ever cope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWithe Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I think Warnock sometimes tries a little "too hard" and over does it if that possible. I remember Alex saying that they needed to tell Warnock to calm down because he was working himself to death in the pre season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I remember Alex saying that they needed to tell Warnock to calm down because he was working himself to death in the pre season. Propaganda from the mandarins at B6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I took my 7yo son there last night. We sat in the Lower Holte and watched the OG go in about 3 rows behind where it was. As soon as it happened there were loads of fans screaming abuse at Warnock, really nasty stuff he could quite obviously hear while lying on his back wanting the ground to swallow him up with a look of disbelief on his face. Then when all the other players (including Dunne) had walked off and left him there, it was only Given who went to him, put his arm on his shoulder and tried to offer some comfort. As he did that, the whole stand booed. It was absolutely sickening and I saw the shocked and upset look on my son's face, he couldn't understand how fans could turn on their player like that. I was 50/50 whether to just get up and walk out at that point, leaving the arseholes to their bile. We stuck it out only to hear Warnock getting booed on every touch, but a fantastic performance in the 2nd half. Obviously McLeish had a word with him at HT as he seemed really determined to put it right and him and Hutton were both great on the flanks in the 2nd half. I was left thinking last night that perhaps it wouldn't be a bad thing if we got relegated because hopefully the idiots would lose interest and only leave Villa to the real supporters. Great post about shameful behaviour. We can all lose our head and say things we shouldn't at a football match but to single out a play for such vitriol demonstrates a real lack of empathy from one human to another. We've all seen it before going back to the treatment meted out to Spink, Gage and Cascarino (although I have a lot less sympathy with him knowing what I now know). I'm not Warnock's biggest fan but the lad must be playing under enormous pressure at the moment knowing that the fans are going to jump on his back at the first sign of a hesitant pass. If you've ever played football you'll know how key confidence is in your overall performance and how a few bad passes can really set the tone for the rest of your performance. Imagine that with 30000 critics ready to unleash their venom upon you. I think he demonstrated incredible steel to put in the second half performance that he did under the circumstances. I think it's fair enough to say 'you pays your money your takes your choice' and football is an emotional game which is why it remains as popular as it is. But you also have to consider that you're dealing with human beings who make mistakes and have feelings. Agree wholeheartedly. As one poster said, there are too many 'fans' turning up hoping for Warnock to make a mistake just so that they can boo him. I'd suggest they look up the definition of supporter. I feel really sorry for him too. I mean, playing a sport you love in a city you don't want to be in, for a club you aren't bothered about, for the last 3 years, earning around £6.2m in wages, whilst playing poorly and still being picked. Yeah, must be a right bummer that! I forgot to mention the pressure bit. It must be terrible pressure on the poor fella, worrying that another poor attempted clearance, lack of positioning or God forbid, attempted diving header past Given, might mean him being booed and dropped to the bench to pick up his £40,000 a week wages. Imagine if he worked in the real world and had to worry that he might perform brilliantly and still lose his job due to the recession? How would he ever cope? I was waiting for the old 'he gets paid enough to get abuse'. How much does someone have to be paid to warrant getting nasty personal abuse screamed at them and having the feeling of 30,000 people around them waiting to boo their every move? Does a Doctor's receptionist deserve it? Does a Surgeon getting paid £100k/year deserve it? Where's your line where it's acceptable or not, because I'd like to know if it's OK to abuse a Footballer earning £5k/week, or whether they have to be earning £20k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 he should go to hr about it !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted February 3, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted February 3, 2012 Warnock's problem is not his ability - it's his decision making. (In fact, this would cover most of our backs.) My main criticism of Warnock is that he goes to ground too readily. At times, he also finds himself in a poor defensive position, though he's not as bad as Collins when it comes to this. Thing is, these sort of things can and should be coached so that he positions himself better, stays on his feet and is a little more aware of his surroundings (thereby not trying to put a header towards goal but controlling the ball and playing out - even from his own box). So what is happening with our coaching? It sounds as if it's focused too much on fitness and technique and not enough on tactics and decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginko Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I was waiting for the old 'he gets paid enough to get abuse'. How much does someone have to be paid to warrant getting nasty personal abuse screamed at them and having the feeling of 30,000 people around them waiting to boo their every move? Does a Doctor's receptionist deserve it? Does a Surgeon getting paid £100k/year deserve it? Where's your line where it's acceptable or not, because I'd like to know if it's OK to abuse a Footballer earning £5k/week, or whether they have to be earning £20k? Completely agree. Sick of this argument. Apparently if someone gets paid well it's ok to hurl horrific abuse at them and they can just take it because it's not like they have feelings. Utterly pathetic and ridiculous, some people should be ashamed of themselves. Do people seriously think that if they showed some empathy and thought about how it would feel to get thousands of people calling you all the names under the sun, cursing you with every breath that they could not be affected by it? Do you think your performance on the pitch wouldn't suffer because of it? How does it help exactly. Nope, unfortunately there are a lot of morons out there who don't have the capacity to think past swearing their heads off. Arseholes the lot of them and piss-poor excuses for human-beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 It's clear enough that Warnock's confidence is shot through and booing him is a pretty dumb way of reacting to that. As soon as we have a fit/competent replacement he needs to be dropped and given some time to rebuild his game (in my view, preferably at another club). McLeish did try to replace him with Clark in the Wolves game but he turned out to be even worse. We just don't have anyone at the moment who can do the job. We have to hope Lichaj or Stevens can get up to speed pretty soon. Until then, Warnock is actually playing on our team, however badly and booing him is pretty crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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