bickster Posted April 1, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2012 Hold on, its a farce that we sent him out on a year long loan and he can't be recalled but its also a farce that we did the same with Jenas when loaning him in. Hilarious lack of logic and Houlston's point is spot on And Makoun woud do absolutely nothing here just like last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Hold on, its a farce that we sent him out on a year long loan and he can't be recalled but its also a farce that we did the same with Jenas when loaning him in. Hilarious lack of logic and Houlston's point is spot on And Makoun woud do absolutely nothing here just like last season Yes it is a farce loaning out a senior player without the possibility to recall him, and yes it is a farce to loan a player with Jenas injury record without the possibility to send him back. Seems pretty logic to me. And that last piece is a joke right, april's fools? People should not be so black and white in their opinions but you categorically state that Makoun would be totally useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 1, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2012 Well the evidence of when he actually was playing here suggests he was useless… apart from the game against Man Utd yadda yadda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Well the evidence of when he actually was playing here suggests he was useless… apart from the game against Man Utd yadda yadda. There's an IMO missing somewhere there IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 1, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2012 Well the evidence of when he actually was playing here suggests he was useless… apart from the game against Man Utd yadda yadda. There's an IMO missing somewhere there IMO. Did you think I was posting someone else's opinion? He was particularly useless though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Well the evidence of when he actually was playing here suggests he was useless… apart from the game against Man Utd yadda yadda. There's an IMO missing somewhere there IMO. Did you think I was posting someone else's opinion? He was particularly useless though You would know more about this than I would, but I thought it was more or less customary to use IMO when there is a considerable weight of opinion to the contrary. If you feel you have the final say, that might be different. It's not just me who thought he was a good player. Many other posters and several match commentators did. I don't know if you're judging him by his cards and dismissal, all of which were extremely harsh. Defensive play was not his strength in the games he played for us, but he's been played as a DM in the CL, so he was probably just getting used to the PL. I'm amazed that anyone could have watched his incredible one touch passing and decided that he's "useless". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaGoMarching Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 In all honesty, i don't think Makoun would be any help in the current situation had he been recalled, the fact is he needed games to get the pace of the league and bed in, If he'd have played games from the start of the season in this league then he'd be an asset i'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 1, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2012 I'm amazed that anyone could have watched his incredible one touch passing and decided that he's "useless". For Aston Villa, as a player, he was largely useless, having one good game, couldn't time a tackle to save his life and was so far off the pace in the PL that I doubt he'd ever make it here. I also got the distinct impression that he really didn't want to be here this season but somehow he is suddenly the player that would save our season if only we could get him back here. Its absolute madness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savosleftboot Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 We have to consider him as unfortunately we've got a huge hole in central midfield now. Him and Delph have to step it up or be moved on to free up wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I'm amazed that anyone could have watched his incredible one touch passing and decided that he's "useless". For Aston Villa, as a player, he was largely useless, having one good game, couldn't time a tackle to save his life and was so far off the pace in the PL that I doubt he'd ever make it here. I also got the distinct impression that he really didn't want to be here this season but somehow he is suddenly the player that would save our season if only we could get him back here. Its absolute madness Sometimes players from other leagues need time to come to grips with the pace of the PL and some hit the ground running (a la Cabaye). But don't you think it's fair to afford him that time based on his outstanding performance at OT in only his second game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Makoun didn't get a pre-season.. He didn't get a chance to truly gel with those around him. When he was played we were in a relegation fight and he was a liability. It wasn't down to a lack of quality it was just down to a simple fact he couldn't adjust quick enough. I'm not sure why McLeish loaned him unless he assumed that Houllier didn't play him so he must be average, I don't know but if Makoun can get to grips with the PL then he'll be a great player for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 My two cents on this matter: He did not set an immediate impact at the Villa, but clearly he had some tackling in him and he defintely could make a good pass. What is more important, players like him need time to settle in. Great players like Silva and to a degree Mata (whom are much more attacking mind) settled in quite quickly, but Luka Modric did not in my opinion. His first season was up and down and I never actually saw his contribution back then. Since he has developed more time on the ball and now his talent is unquestionable. Now Makoun is not in this class, but I am 100% sure he could and would be a sure starter in our team if he was given some more chances. If he played 15 games in a row he would become so much more comfortable on the ball, and let's be honest, he didn't stink in the first place. A much better player than Herd and Bannan, as well as Fabian Delph and the young Gary Gardner. He has experience from the top level, he has the international spirit and would bring something else to our side. We are relying on youth, which is the same as knowing we are going to get a good performance one day and a terrible one in the next few games. That is the nature in being young and inexperienced, especially as none of these players are the next Mozart of football. Sending him out was shortsighted, detrimental to our squad quality and options. Older players will always be leaders to the younger ones, even though I don't think he knew English but that is part of the international game. The Jenas-deal was ruined before he ever got a chance to play, and I think he would have been a decent asset given our lacklustre season. I was opposed to it when it happened, but me like most of you guys probably had too high expectation for this season. Of course, maybe the tone was set by him and his agent early on. Maybe they said to McLeish that Makoun hated the city and would never settle at the Villa, so they had to deal quickly. But again, we are talking about Alex McLeish and we all know he has no idea about what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 My two cents on this matter: He did not set an immediate impact at the Villa, but clearly he had some tackling in him and he defintely could make a good pass. What is more important, players like him need time to settle in. Great players like Silva and to a degree Mata (whom are much more attacking mind) settled in quite quickly, but Luka Modric did not in my opinion. His first season was up and down and I never actually saw his contribution back then. Since he has developed more time on the ball and now his talent is unquestionable. Now Makoun is not in this class, but I am 100% sure he could and would be a sure starter in our team if he was given some more chances. If he played 15 games in a row he would become so much more comfortable on the ball, and let's be honest, he didn't stink in the first place. A much better player than Herd and Bannan, as well as Fabian Delph and the young Gary Gardner. He has experience from the top level, he has the international spirit and would bring something else to our side. We are relying on youth, which is the same as knowing we are going to get a good performance one day and a terrible one in the next few games. That is the nature in being young and inexperienced, especially as none of these players are the next Mozart of football. Sending him out was shortsighted, detrimental to our squad quality and options. Older players will always be leaders to the younger ones, even though I don't think he knew English but that is part of the international game. The Jenas-deal was ruined before he ever got a chance to play, and I think he would have been a decent asset given our lacklustre season. I was opposed to it when it happened, but me like most of you guys probably had too high expectation for this season. Of course, maybe the tone was set by him and his agent early on. Maybe they said to McLeish that Makoun hated the city and would never settle at the Villa, so they had to deal quickly. But again, we are talking about Alex McLeish and we all know he has no idea about what he is doing.Good post. Nobody's saying that if only he were here he'd save our season. It's just that we'd like to see him play, especially given the season we're having. If the loan was driven by the player, then fair enough - not much we could have done about it. But if you read the first few pages of this thread, you'll see that a huge number of us were in disbelief when it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Yes it is a farce loaning out a senior player without the possibility to recall him, and yes it is a farce to loan a player with Jenas injury record without the possibility to send him back. Seems pretty logic to me. am pretty sure if club pays a loan fee they cant be recalled, happened when sha signed Hart and City needed a striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 My two cents on this matter: He did not set an immediate impact at the Villa, but clearly he had some tackling in him and he defintely could make a good pass. What is more important, players like him need time to settle in. Great players like Silva and to a degree Mata (whom are much more attacking mind) settled in quite quickly, but Luka Modric did not in my opinion. His first season was up and down and I never actually saw his contribution back then. Since he has developed more time on the ball and now his talent is unquestionable. Now Makoun is not in this class, but I am 100% sure he could and would be a sure starter in our team if he was given some more chances. If he played 15 games in a row he would become so much more comfortable on the ball, and let's be honest, he didn't stink in the first place. A much better player than Herd and Bannan, as well as Fabian Delph and the young Gary Gardner. He has experience from the top level, he has the international spirit and would bring something else to our side. We are relying on youth, which is the same as knowing we are going to get a good performance one day and a terrible one in the next few games. That is the nature in being young and inexperienced, especially as none of these players are the next Mozart of football. Sending him out was shortsighted, detrimental to our squad quality and options. Older players will always be leaders to the younger ones, even though I don't think he knew English but that is part of the international game. The Jenas-deal was ruined before he ever got a chance to play, and I think he would have been a decent asset given our lacklustre season. I was opposed to it when it happened, but me like most of you guys probably had too high expectation for this season. Of course, maybe the tone was set by him and his agent early on. Maybe they said to McLeish that Makoun hated the city and would never settle at the Villa, so they had to deal quickly. But again, we are talking about Alex McLeish and we all know he has no idea about what he is doing. Settling in time is a very interesting subject. It seems to me that managers who have a great record at signing players are more likely to have their fans give them time or the benefit of the doubt than fans who have experienced their manager making poor/modest signings. I think it is reasonable to assume that some players need more time than others i.e Ken McNaught under Ron Saunders. The difference here is everyone believed in Ron Saunders and his signings. Its kinda funny though that when you do have a manager that buys badly, you almost know straight away good signing/bad signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 It's not unusual for a player to have trouble settling into a new side (Thinking of Milner and Petrov in recent years). It's important that a manager has faith in them if he thinks they have the ability to make it and keeps playing them. The striking thing about Makoun is that since he left France, no manager, not even the one who bought him, has had that faith and been prepared to let him play himself in. Even at Olympiakos he has been in and out of the side and has featured many times as a substitute only. That suggests to me that he may not have what it takes to become a successful Premier League player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Briny, an honest, un-loaded question (well, two): Do you know for a fact that he's simply been dropped at Olympiakos? Is it possible that he's been injured or recovering from injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Would love to see Jean x2 back, funny how some players get a free ride for ages and some get no time to settle at all. Look at Stan in his first season as a good example. Im talking generally as well, not just villa fans before any of you mentalists start up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Well I agree, but that's because I think he's a good player! Anyway, as Houlston says, maybe he just didn't want to be here. Houllier was the one who signed him, maybe he was counting on playing under GH.If so, he must be a disappointed man because GH barely played him. Houllier played him at the start, he then got sent off at Blackpool and lost his place as others came in and played well like Delph. Remember when Ashley Young first came in, people were doubting his quality and he soon dropped to the bench but a full pre season and he was brilliant the next season. Foreign players need time to settle in, why don't people get it? Henry took 14 games to score for Arsenal, Angel took an age to score for us. I'm not saying Makoun's a world beater but he'd have been better than some who've played in midfield for us this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Also....McLeish gambled on Delph being amazing for us this season and also staying injury free. He did alright first 2-3 games of the season but soon slumped in form. At that point I'd have liked a Makoun to come in for Delph and give us a more solid look with Stan in the centre. Of course we had Jenas for this...well from November who lasted 5 minutes before being injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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