Bazdavies79 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I fail to see how anybody can really comment on who is the better prospect out of Bannan, Carruthers and Johnson (particularly the latter) when the reality is they are most likely to only have seen Bannan properly in action. We all raved about Bannan when he first started out which shows how things don't always turn out as they are planned. Daniel Johnson is nearly twenty and has not played properly for Villa yet - Bannan was playing for Scotland at that point in his career. Bear in mind when Bannan was nineteen/twenty we actually had some good central midfielders at the club and he was still making the odd appearance. Just ridiculous to compare. Carruthers has been good in about half an hour of football for us. He's a prospect yes, but he would have been a regular last season if he was at Bannan's level of ability as we had such an out-of-sorts midfield. Totally agree. Think people would be rushing to say that Carruthers and Johnson are going to be better. Really no clue how they will be until they properly step up to the first team and get some more games. I'd like to see Bannan get a good chance this season. It looks like he has some great vision when he plays, but maybe doesn't quite have the skill to back it up at the moment. I'd hope for an above average season for him this year (anymore and he'll get nabbed by someone else like all the rest of our good players...). If he has a worse season than the last, then I'd start maybe asking whether he is good enough for us.Totally disagree, I think anybody with a keen eye and a bit of a clue can compare and contrast players of differing development stages and make a judgement on who is the better prospect. I haven't seen much of Bannan, less of Johnson - but I think he's the better prospect based on what I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertoAVFC Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I fail to see how anybody can really comment on who is the better prospect out of Bannan, Carruthers and Johnson (particularly the latter) when the reality is they are most likely to only have seen Bannan properly in action. We all raved about Bannan when he first started out which shows how things don't always turn out as they are planned. Daniel Johnson is nearly twenty and has not played properly for Villa yet - Bannan was playing for Scotland at that point in his career. Bear in mind when Bannan was nineteen/twenty we actually had some good central midfielders at the club and he was still making the odd appearance. Just ridiculous to compare. Carruthers has been good in about half an hour of football for us. He's a prospect yes, but he would have been a regular last season if he was at Bannan's level of ability as we had such an out-of-sorts midfield. Totally agree. Think people would be rushing to say that Carruthers and Johnson are going to be better. Really no clue how they will be until they properly step up to the first team and get some more games. I'd like to see Bannan get a good chance this season. It looks like he has some great vision when he plays, but maybe doesn't quite have the skill to back it up at the moment. I'd hope for an above average season for him this year (anymore and he'll get nabbed by someone else like all the rest of our good players...). If he has a worse season than the last, then I'd start maybe asking whether he is good enough for us.Totally disagree, I think anybody with a keen eye and a bit of a clue can compare and contrast players of differing development stages and make a judgement on who is the better prospect. I haven't seen much of Bannan, less of Johnson - but I think he's the better prospect based on what I have seen. Usually, yes, anybody with a "keen eye" probably can if they have actually seen them play at the same level, but you won't have seen Johnson in a senior shirt, whereas you will have seen Bannan plenty since he was Johnson's current age (can you not see how that is very indicative of ability, particularly when you consider that Bannan was still getting the odd game under a manager that didn't rotate his midfield and actually possessed quality in that area?) Senior football is the ultimate exposure and determining factor in judging how good a player is - you don't "make it" at reserve level. If Johnson was sixteen/seventeen it would be different, but he's getting to the stage in his career where he really should be breaking into the first team if he is going to succeed at Villa. As I recall Johnson has only really made it onto the bench when we were in the worst phase of our injury crisis - never used. If he was absolutely destroying the reserves (as Bannan did for several years), he would have broken into the weakest first team midfield we've had in years by now. He isn't and hasn't, whereas Bannan did both (ok he was hardly a starter, but he was getting senior game time in a stronger midfield) at Johnson's age, and yet people are still saying Johnson is a better prospect? Beggars belief - no logic, just people wanting to slate Bannan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 You don't have to see a player at the same level to make a judgement. The fact Bannan was getting more first team chances at the same age is neither here nor there. I think Johnson will be a better player. And I'm not slating Bannan, more praising Johnson. Bannan, as I stated earlier has another season to prove he's good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durrr Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Daniel Johnson has been absolutely superb every time I have seen him. A friend of mine watched him last year and couldn't believe it that we weren't raving about him all the time. A real prospect imo. Bannan needs to cut out all this fancy crap that he never pulls off, otherwise give Johnson a chance and sell Bannan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2012 Most people rate Johnson highly. I think the relative lack of hype over him is because we're all still expecting and waiting to see Gardner graduate into the CM we know he can be. It wouldn't surprise me to see someone like Johnson or Carruthers break into the senior side next season though; albeit intermittently. That's the other great thing about new managers. They take a fresh look at the youths and can sometimes spot something others who saw them week in week out never fully appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggy_333 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Tranfer_ITK on Twitter (I know it's Twitter and i know he's probably one of the more unreliable ones) has stated that Bannan is wanted on loan by Sheffield Wednesday, Huddersfield and Leeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durrr Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 It wouldn't surprise me to see someone like Johnson or Carruthers break into the senior side next season though Absolutely. I think we will see both at some stage, although as you said intermittently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Looking forward to seeing Carruthers, looked promising of the glimpses we saw last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 For those bigging up Johnson, Carruthers etc and slamming Bannan Can I just agree that Johnson and Carruthers have been excellent in reserves last year. However so was Bannan - in a number of games he looked a cut above everyone else and showed he has been playing at a higher level. Point is they all have talent - it aint easy to be a big player in Prem but they have time on their side. Some (Johnson, Carruthers, Gardner) more than others (Bannan, Albrighton) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I agree villaglint. People mention Johnson. But Gardner, Bannan, Wiemann & Albrighton were all shining in the reserves league. (That said, so was Fonz! ... and he's rarely masde the step up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2012 That's it villaglint. Reserves; while being a good gauge of ability; are not a perfect gauge. Some players excel in the relative lack of pressure of the reserves and some only excel when they hit the first team. Chris Herd was relatively unheralded in the reserves side as a rightback. He almost got into the first team by default, but he grabbed it with both hands and ended the season as our first choice defensive midfielder. No-one really saw that tenacity when he was with the stiffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeaniimacaroon Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 That's it villaglint. Reserves; while being a good gauge of ability; are not a perfect gauge. Very true. I'd love to see any of the youngsters in the reserves come through and become better than Bannan, whether that is Carruthers or Johnson or Gardner. But definitely with the former two I just don't think their performances in the reserves warrants them getting ahead of Bannan at least at the start of the season. Bannan has had some good games last season, and I feel under a better manager he might show some more promise. Obviously they may well get a good shot if he does get loaned out this season as someone mentioned above (I really hope he doesn't mind), but not before Gardner. The performances he showed last season were pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 http://tinyurl.com/c4ygqsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillz Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The first time i took notice of Bannan was in the game against Fulham when he did a 'hollywood pass' straight to Albrighton on the other wing who was able to cut in and score. I hadn't seen a player at villa have that vision or defence splitting pass for quite some time. Admittedly there are times when the passes go astray and it's very frustrating but when they go right they create a goal scoring chance and therefore i don't think he should 'cut them out of his game'. If theres anything frustrating about Bannan it's his inability to finish. He himself has been in numerous scoring positions and seems to have a knack of shooting straight at the keeper or blazing it over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KjParton Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I just want a different free kick taker tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyDerHammer Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 The first time i took notice of Bannan was in the game against Fulham when he did a 'hollywood pass' straight to Albrighton on the other wing who was able to cut in and score. I hadn't seen a player at villa have that vision or defence splitting pass for quite some time. Admittedly there are times when the passes go astray and it's very frustrating but when they go right they create a goal scoring chance and therefore i don't think he should 'cut them out of his game'. If theres anything frustrating about Bannan it's his inability to finish. He himself has been in numerous scoring positions and seems to have a knack of shooting straight at the keeper or blazing it over... I agree with Gillz here. Now I'm not saying Bannan is as good as say Iniesta before any moaners start, but bear with me. Imaging we had Iniesta in our midfield last year. Would he shine. No. The reason is nobody in a claret and blue shirt moves. For example, he picks the ball up on the centre spot. He looks left. Nzogbia is marked. If he passes to Warnock he may aswell just boot it off the pitch. He looks right. We have no right winger. They have tucked inside and are marked. He can't pass to Hutton, he's just shite. If he passes to Dunne or Collins it is through to the keeper at one end or another. So he looks forward. Gabby and Bent are motionless. What can he do. He has to play a miracle pass, which nine times out of ten won't come off. This new pass and move style will fit in with Bannan's game. He can pick a pass. Next season he will flourish if he is played in the centre of the pitch. BB is not a winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousHolteUnion Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 ^ That. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daholteend Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Bannan had a solid enough game against the Timbers. As the preseason progresses and some of our newer players get used to reading Bannan's passes his value to the team will increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysAVFC Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I agree with Gillz here. Now I'm not saying Bannan is as good as say Iniesta before any moaners start, but bear with me. Imaging we had Iniesta in our midfield last year. Would he shine. No. The reason is nobody in a claret and blue shirt moves. For example, he picks the ball up on the centre spot. He looks left. Nzogbia is marked. If he passes to Warnock he may aswell just boot it off the pitch. He looks right. We have no right winger. They have tucked inside and are marked. He can't pass to Hutton, he's just shite. If he passes to Dunne or Collins it is through to the keeper at one end or another. So he looks forward. Gabby and Bent are motionless. What can he do. He has to play a miracle pass, which nine times out of ten won't come off. I'm hoping the same can be said of Delph, I think the reason why he gets caught in possesion so much is that there has been simply nothing on, whatever type of pass, ending up with Delph keeping hold of it longer than he should. In actual fact he usually does well to keep the ball as long as he does before the inevitable. So hopefully the increase in movement will help both players out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillz Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 One of the real problems for BB is that whilst he 'fits' PL's new style of play so do many other players like Ireland and Delph and Makoun and now with the new signing of KAE and the emergence of Gardener and Carrathurs he will be in a real fight or a place in the starting XI. I really don't know if he will be able to hold down a place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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