The RJW63 Official Jack Grealish Appreciation Thread

[Indigo]

Jack literally drives the team forward more than any other player in the side by an absolute mile. It's genuinely astounding that out of all the things to criticise him for that that's something that would be mentioned.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Indigo

[bobzy]

16 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

Forget all the talk of Premier League standards etc, he's simply not good enough for our starting XI at the moment. Comparing him to McGinn is embarrassing as it stands; where's the end product, where's the driving the team forward, where's the hassling and grafting, where's the worldy goals? All coming from McGinn. Hourihane offers more at the moment. We need a manager who has the balls to drop him.

Today he was our weakest player. I don't care if it's a case of his ability/potential - this season he is barely a good Championship midfielder and we have better options. Maybe a rest would do him good.

Crazy wanting Hourihane in ahead of Grealish. The man does absolutely nothing unless the ball is dead.

[KenjiOgiwara]

It's obvious he is a good and important player, but he needs to be a better finisher for someone that integral in the attacking play. 

Surely we can think he's a good player and see room for improvement at the same time ? 

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Crazy wanting Hourihane in ahead of Grealish. The man does absolutely nothing unless the ball is dead.

Apart from goals and assists. 

[westholmevillan]

25 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

Forget all the talk of Premier League standards etc, he's simply not good enough for our starting XI at the moment. Comparing him to McGinn is embarrassing as it stands; where's the end product, where's the driving the team forward, where's the hassling and grafting, where's the worldy goals? All coming from McGinn. Hourihane offers more at the moment. We need a manager who has the balls to drop him.

Today he was our weakest player. I don't care if it's a case of his ability/potential - this season he is barely a good Championship midfielder and we have better options. Maybe a rest would do him good.

Spot on....woeful again today! DS was correct in hooking him...it was the right call at the right time.  People telling me the other day that 'he only falls over because he's played out of position!  Yes, somebody actually said that! 

 

I can see DS leaving him out he doesn't improve and become the very good player that we know he can be!

[bobzy]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Apart from goals and assists. 

As I said, when the ball is dead he's good.  Outside of that, he isn't.  His goal and assists have come from free kicks (although I think the assist against Wigan for Bjarnason's goal was a cross from open play).

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, westholmevillan said:

Spot on....woeful again today! DS was correct in hooking him...it was the right call at the right time.  People telling me the other day that 'he only falls over because he's played out of position!  Yes, somebody actually said that! 

 

I can see DS leaving him out he doesn't improve and become the very good player that we know he can be!

It would be madness.

He's basically one of the top players in the division for every sort of metric other than goals and assists.  Rightly, he has to improve that aspect of his game, and today wasn't one of his better games at all, but to leave him out completely would hugely impact us (in a negative way).

[DCJonah]

20 minutes ago, bobzy said:

As I said, when the ball is dead he's good.  Outside of that, he isn't.  His goal and assists have come from free kicks (although I think the assist against Wigan for Bjarnason's goal was a cross from open play).

The majority of his goals have come from open play. Not sure about assists but wouldn't surprise me if a lot of those were from open play as well.

[villa4europe]

there's a serious number of heads that need to be given a wobble

some of you need to watch our goal again, elmo on the ball, jack puts himself in space and wants the ball, gets it, 3 swansea players go to close him down, jack picks out a pass taking all of them out of the game, elmo now in acres of space gets time for his cross

same thing as what happened a few weeks ago when everyone rushed to close him down and he backheeled it to elmo in acres for him to cross for our goal

its crazy how we are all celebrating the end of the bruce era of putting boots on and putting in workhorse performances and then at the same time we're picking out jack grealish and questioning how much he puts himself about (which like i said previously is far more than people give him credit for) today wasnt the 10/10 superstar performance that people demand off him but there was nothing wrong with it either

[jackbauer24]

Ok, this might be a bit data heavy but let's look at some stats from whoscored.com for our three midfielders. And before some says stats only tell half the story, I've gone to all the home games and watched all the televised away ones so watching him fully has also cemented my belief he needs dropping based on his PERFORMANCES THIS SEASON. Obviously, that's just my opinion...

Minutes - Grealish 1112, McGinn 1045, Hourihane 658

Defensive;

Tackling - McGinn 2.3, Hourihane 1, Grealish 0.9

Clearances - Hourihane 1, McGinn 0.6, Grealish 0.4

Blocks - McGinn 0.3, Hourihane 0.2, Grealish 0

(McGinn 8pts, Hourihane 7pts, Grealish 3pts if points for positions, 3 for 1st to 1 for third!)

Passing;

Assists - Hourihane 4, McGinn 3, Grealish 1

Key Passes - Grealish 2, McGinn 1.9, Hourihane 0.8

Pass Success - Grealish 87%, Hourihane 86%, McGinn 81%

(Grealish 7pts, Hourihane 6pts, McGinn 5pts)

Attacking;

Goals - McGinn/Hourihane 1, Grealish 0

Shots - Hourihane/Grealish 2.2, McGinn 1.7

Fouled - Grealish 4.7, McGinn 1.7, Hourihane 0.5

(Grealish 6.5pts, Hourihane 6pts, McGinn 5.5pts)

Negative aspects (now flips to worst first!);

Dispossessed - Grealish 2.5, McGinn 1.6, Hourihane 0.4

Bad Control - Grealish 1.7, McGinn 1.1, Hourihane 0.6

Cards - McGinn 5, Grealish 4, Hourihane 0

(Hourihane 9pts, McGinn 5pts, Grealish 4pts)

(Totals - Hourihane 28pts, McGinn 23.5pts, Grealish 20.5pts - but recognise the dodgy science behind this!!)

These paint a fairly clear picture to me. McGinn is head and shoulders above Grealish. Hourihane has played roughly half the time that Grealish has yet his impact on games has been far greater. Grealish's one strength is winning free kicks because he holds on to it for far too long but has good enough feet to win the foul!

I'm really not impressed this season and people need to take off their rose tinted glasses and look at what he's really offering. I'm bored of hearing about his potential now - this is our third season in the Championship and he's still not shining.

McGinn offers more going forward, Hourihane is more effective and probably balances the midfield better. Grealish needs dropping until he starts actually impacting on games.

But this is just my opinion based on what I watch and what the stats seem to back up. Most around me today were very pleased he finally got substituted today.

 

 

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

 Hourihane has played roughly half the time that Grealish has yet his impact on games has been far greater

define impact?

because if its defined by a piece of paper then maybe you're right, if its defined by what i watch with my eyes every week it definitely isnt

hourihane does nowhere near as much for our team as grealish

and the stat where jack will possibly come out top of the entire league this season, chances created, where's that?

[DaveAV1]

42 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It would be madness.

He's basically one of the top players in the division for every sort of metric other than goals and assists.  Rightly, he has to improve that aspect of his game, and today wasn't one of his better games at all, but to leave him out completely would hugely impact us (in a negative way).

Whilst I agree he is our best player and one of the best in the division, he certainly isn’t performing to anywhere near his full ability. I wouldn’t be dropping him at the moment, but at some point you have to take a view that no one is undroppable, hopefully it won’t come to that. 

His goals and assists are definitely his weak points, which is my main overall worry for Jack. After all, having those as your weak points is a pretty big deal for a number 10. I’m extremely hopeful though that the new coaching staff will make him a much better player in both the short and long term. 

[bobzy]

8 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

Ok, this might be a bit data heavy but let's look at some stats from whoscored.com for our three midfielders. And before some says stats only tell half the story, I've gone to all the home games and watched all the televised away ones so watching him fully has also cemented my belief he needs dropping based on his PERFORMANCES THIS SEASON. Obviously, that's just my opinion...

Those stats are fine, but they're odd to attribute points against.  Hourihane has assists and a goal from free kicks and McGinn has 2(?) assists from free kicks too.  Grealish doesn't take set pieces so quite literally cannot get these "points", but they're also dead ball situations and not having an impact in open play.  Grealish does so much more creatively than either of the others do - by a long way, too.

I had a discussion with the Leeds fan who posts on here regarding "assists to an assist" - Grealish is almost always the player who supplies the pass that allows a cross.  He's almost always the player who is fouled which leads to a free kick.  He is a massive, massive part of our attacking setup even if he doesn't win points for goals/assists.

[El Zen]

I thought Jack had a very good game but he really does need to start scoring goals. 

[villa4europe]

8 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Whilst I agree he is our best player and one of the best in the division, he certainly isn’t performing to anywhere near his full ability. I wouldn’t be dropping him at the moment, but at some point you have to take a view that no one is undroppable, hopefully it won’t come to that. 

His goals and assists are definitely his weak points, which is my main overall worry for Jack. After all, having those as your weak points is a pretty big deal for a number 10. I’m extremely hopeful though that the new coaching staff will make him a much better player in both the short and long term. 

thats the bit i dont get

if we were leicester or spurs fans being linked with him for £30m then i could understand us not watching much of him and lazily checking those stats but we watch him every week why are we still judging him based on stats?? i watch him do things every week that no other player in our squad can do, usually its stuff that he makes look real simple like a perfectly weighted ball down the line for adomah, if admoah then crosses and abraham scores and we win the game do i judge jack negatively due to having 0 assists and 0 goals

because not necessarily involving adomah and abraham but that scenario has happened at least 3 times this season already off the top of my head

Edited October 20, 2018 by villa4europe

[Davkaus]

24 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

there's a serious number of heads that need to be given a wobble

some of you need to watch our goal again, elmo on the ball, jack puts himself in space and wants the ball, gets it, 3 swansea players go to close him down, jack picks out a pass taking all of them out of the game, elmo now in acres of space gets time for his cross

 

Yup, and he did the same several times throughout the game.

All too often we were just passing it left to right with no real ideas until we got it to Jack who got the ball forward for us, either with a little run, or a clever pass. 

I was still frustrated by his unwillingness to shoot, and his poor efforts when he finally did, though, he really needs to work on that because it's often his undoing when he'll do something great, then try and get the ball to someone else when he's already in a great position to have a go.

[westholmevillan]

28 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

Ok, this might be a bit data heavy but let's look at some stats from whoscored.com for our three midfielders. And before some says stats only tell half the story, I've gone to all the home games and watched all the televised away ones so watching him fully has also cemented my belief he needs dropping based on his PERFORMANCES THIS SEASON. Obviously, that's just my opinion...

Minutes - Grealish 1112, McGinn 1045, Hourihane 658

Defensive;

Tackling - McGinn 2.3, Hourihane 1, Grealish 0.9

Clearances - Hourihane 1, McGinn 0.6, Grealish 0.4

Blocks - McGinn 0.3, Hourihane 0.2, Grealish 0

(McGinn 8pts, Hourihane 7pts, Grealish 3pts if points for positions, 3 for 1st to 1 for third!)

Passing;

Assists - Hourihane 4, McGinn 3, Grealish 1

Key Passes - Grealish 2, McGinn 1.9, Hourihane 0.8

Pass Success - Grealish 87%, Hourihane 86%, McGinn 81%

(Grealish 7pts, Hourihane 6pts, McGinn 5pts)

Attacking;

Goals - McGinn/Hourihane 1, Grealish 0

Shots - Hourihane/Grealish 2.2, McGinn 1.7

Fouled - Grealish 4.7, McGinn 1.7, Hourihane 0.5

(Grealish 6.5pts, Hourihane 6pts, McGinn 5.5pts)

Negative aspects (now flips to worst first!);

Dispossessed - Grealish 2.5, McGinn 1.6, Hourihane 0.4

Bad Control - Grealish 1.7, McGinn 1.1, Hourihane 0.6

Cards - McGinn 5, Grealish 4, Hourihane 0

(Hourihane 9pts, McGinn 5pts, Grealish 4pts)

(Totals - Hourihane 28pts, McGinn 23.5pts, Grealish 20.5pts - but recognise the dodgy science behind this!!)

These paint a fairly clear picture to me. McGinn is head and shoulders above Grealish. Hourihane has played roughly half the time that Grealish has yet his impact on games has been far greater. Grealish's one strength is winning free kicks because he holds on to it for far too long but has good enough feet to win the foul!

I'm really not impressed this season and people need to take off their rose tinted glasses and look at what he's really offering. I'm bored of hearing about his potential now - this is our third season in the Championship and he's still not shining.

McGinn offers more going forward, Hourihane is more effective and probably balances the midfield better. Grealish needs dropping until he starts actually impacting on games.

But this is just my opinion based on what I watch and what the stats seem to back up. Most around me today were very pleased he finally got substituted today.

 

 

Great post and spot on!  

[LakotaDakota]

19 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Grealish doesn't take set pieces so quite literally cannot get these "points", but they're also dead ball situations and not having an impact in open play.  Grealish does so much more creatively than either of the others do - by a long way, too.

Quite literally his only assist is from taking a corner.....

[villa4europe]

for those who havent seen the goal or only saw it during the game

its subtle and doesnt look like much but watch it again, if hourihane is on the pitch rather than jack that goal doesn't happen, no stat for it but he's played a key part, elmo actually stops moving and then takes a shit touch taking him the wrong way but he'll get a stat which makes everyone happy

[djdabush]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

It's obvious he is a good and important player, but he needs to be a better finisher for someone that integral in the attacking play. 

Surely we can think he's a good player and see room for improvement at the same time ? 

Pretty much this. His retention of the ball, moving it into the final third is excellent and will be key if we want to achieve an attractive, possession based style of play.

 

On the other hand, it’s pretty clear to me that Jack’s final ball and, in particular, his finishing is not of the same standard. Given the progress he made under Bruce last year and with a more progressive manager in place, I’m hopeful we’ll see a similar improvement in those areas this season.