Stevo985 Posted September 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: People are allowed to have different ideas of footballing loyalty and the disconnect between how they talk about it and act. I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yes but it would have less years on it and a smaller wage, making it easier to leave. The only reason it was easy to leave this summer is because he's so **** good that an elite team was willing to pay a staggering amount of money for him Can you offer a working explanation how it would have been easier for him to leave this summer on a 3 year contract than a 4 year (with release clause) contract though? This feels like one of those things people just keep repeating to discredit other's arguments when it makes very little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Can you offer a working explanation how it would have been easier for him to leave this summer on a 3 year contract than a 4 year (with release clause) contract though? This feels like one of those things people just keep repeating to discredit other's arguments when it makes very little sense. He would have had less time left on his contract, and he would have been on less wages. This means his contract is worth less, so in theory should cost less to buy out. Which is what a transfer fee essentially is. This is widely known that the longer left on your contract, the more it costs to buy a player. It also makes a smaller increase in wages from other clubs more attractive to the player because he's earning less here. it also pressurises the selling club more into considering a sale because there's less time left on the contract. If we turned down an offer this summer then suddenly next year he's got 2 years left and the fee you'd receive is even less if he's not signing a new contract then. Yes, obviously the release clause has made it easier for him to leave BECAUSE a club was willing to pay £100m for him. But last summer that sort of a clause would have seemed out of reach for clubs to pay. he simply wasn't worth it. In fact there were people HOPING we had put a release clause in to guarantee us that sort of money (I fundamentally disagree with that opinion but it happened) So yes because the clause was triggered, it was easy for him to leave. But that has only happened because he had a fantastic season and has turned himself into the superstar of English football. At the time he signed that contract, it was making it harder for him to leave the club. If he REALLY wanted out as much as people say he did, why would he sign a new contract? It makes no sense. Even with the release clause, the thought of anyone paying £100m last year for him was a massive longshot. He signed the deal because he was happy here. He was still happy here. He's left because he got an amazing offer from one of the best teams in the world that we have absolutely no hope of ever matching. Without that clause, they would have still come calling. yes we may have been able to refuse the bid, but if Jack really wanted to leave he could probably have made it happen and I bet we wouldn't be getting 100m for him That contract has paid for itself 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted September 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2021 15 hours ago, Xela said: Of course he'll score. He's a professional footballer and winning the league. That doesn't mean he's not a Villa fan? His goal wouldn't be the reason we went down... it would be the previous 37 games that got us to that point. You're worrying about a scenario that will never likely happen. he might have been a villa fan once, when he was a kid. but he's not anymore. very seldom does a professional footballer continue to properly support a club whilst they are playing. they should just admit it rather than continue to claim to be a fan. if anyone thinks he walks around the house in a villa top or even watches our games anymore is deluded. let me remind you that JT couldn't bear to play against chelsea...just couldn't do it. many PL clubs would've been happy to sign him but he could not have played against them. he dropped down to the championship instead. that's probably the only modern day exception to the rule i can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Can you offer a working explanation how it would have been easier for him to leave this summer on a 3 year contract than a 4 year (with release clause) contract though? This feels like one of those things people just keep repeating to discredit other's arguments when it makes very little sense. If the owners decided to just say no (like Levy) then he wouldn't be able to leave. Which is my entire point. Afaik a player under 28 can't buy themselves out of a contract within 3 years of signing it according to the Webster ruling. So NSWE could have just said no to a £200m bid if they'd wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, YouUnastanFren said: If the owners decided to just say no (like Levy) then he wouldn't be able to leave. Which is my entire point. Afaik a player under 28 can't buy themselves out of a contract within 3 years of signing it according to the Webster ruling. So NSWE could have just said no to a £200m bid if they'd wanted. Yes but now you have a player that's on 70k per week (or whatever it was before the new contract), but now have Man City dangling 250k per week in front of him - and that becomes messy. Player is unhappy and starts to resent the club. Jack earned a new contract and the release clause was beyond what anyone thought he would be worth. If it wasn't met, he'd still be happy at Villa today IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: Jack earned a new contract and the release clause was beyond what anyone thought he would be worth. I think this is where I disagree. His underlying stats in 19/20 were outrageous. He was among the best players in the league. In retrospect I'm actually pleased the clause wasn't activated immediately like Delph's or in Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, YouUnastanFren said: I think this is where I disagree. His underlying stats in 19/20 were outrageous. He was among the best players in the league. In retrospect I'm actually pleased the clause wasn't activated immediately like Delph's or in Jan. I agree, but then we must agree that he's operating at a level above the rest of the team, during the peak years of his career? The release clause should come as no surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I do need it explaining because I don't understand how the manner in which he left is bad. He stayed with Villa for longer than the vast majority of players as talented as he would, he signed a new contract to ensure we'd get more money if he did leave despite it making it harder for him to leave, he didn't kick up a fuss, he's never said anything but good things about the club, and he's left for an elite club for a record fee. What was he meant to do differently? It depends if you believe the stories about how he and his team courted City pretty much from the moment he signed that contract. I happen to believe them as they now make sense, you may chose not to, which is fine and each will colour how we see Grealish. Particularly for me when you factor in the "my club" horse-shit and the "one of us" mantra. Either way, he left during our training camp and pre-season run, causing a great deal of disruption to our preparations. Not all the disruption, granted, but a definate impact to us and our preparations. Great, we got a lot of money. Would have preferred he stay for one more season at least to see if we could meet the objectives that he signed up to. He didn't and showed no loyalty at all to the club, so I have no loyalty to him, he is just another money driven self obsessed footballer (as they mostly all are) at a plastic club, so I will treat him with the same level of distain I have for them. Now I will await the "yeah but you are posting about him" response, well yes, I am, but I am mostly responding to the laughable assertion that he could ever be considered a Villa legend. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said: I think this is where I disagree. His underlying stats in 19/20 were outrageous. He was among the best players in the league. In retrospect I'm actually pleased the clause wasn't activated immediately like Delph's or in Jan. £100m set the PL transfer record, 6th highest transfer of all time, 3m off the 5th highest transfer, for a guy with 0 trophies, 0 games in the CL and 12 international caps and that injury record, there are very very few comparable transfers in world football, a guy going from a mid table team with no real experience to a CL team at that age for that kind of money rarely happens it is crazy money, its easy to not see it because of the guff around player values now and the likes of joelinton being £40m and harry kane having £160m chucked around but it is crazy money 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: It depends if you believe the stories about how he and his team courted City pretty much from the moment he signed that contract. I happen to believe them as they now make sense, you may chose not to, which is fine and each will colour how we see Grealish. Particularly for me when you factor in the "my club" horse-shit and the "one of us" mantra. Either way, he left during our training camp and pre-season run, causing a great deal of disruption to our preparations. Not all the disruption, granted, but a definate impact to us and our preparations. Great, we got a lot of money. Would have preferred he stay for one more season at least to see if we could meet the objectives that he signed up to. He didn't and showed no loyalty at all to the club, so I have no loyalty to him, he is just another money driven self obsessed footballer (as they mostly all are) at a plastic club, so I will treat him with the same level of distain I have for them. Now I will await the "yeah but you are posting about him" response, well yes, I am, but I am mostly responding to the laughable assertion that he could ever be considered a Villa legend. im not interested in them, partly because the full truth will never be fully disclosed, partly because i consider that to be football at large and then also partly because i dont really care, an alternative "story" would still have the same result and the result is the only thing that matters, he left, how he left is irrelevant to me because its open for interpretation seemingly depending on your emotional attachment to it if his agent had used man city as a decoy to get him a £300k a week contract at villa would you have considered him loyal? like terry, rooney, lampard etc all did again, the most relevant thing to me is this is what football is...this "my club" guff was always guff, if you believed that jack grealish was different because he is a villa fan and because we are aston villa and that means something then thats on you, it means nothing, martinez can say all this stuff about loyalty to the club and loving the club because we gave him a chance and we love him, what do you think happens when real madrid knock on the door with £100m for him? he's gone if man city go in for Kalvin Phillips next summer what do you think he does? because i think he'll be a man city player, exactly the same boat as jack and he will do the exact same thing, do you think leeds fans will declare him a snake and no longer a leeds fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: It depends if you believe the stories about how he and his team courted City pretty much from the moment he signed that contract. I happen to believe them as they now make sense, you may chose not to, which is fine and each will colour how we see Grealish. Particularly for me when you factor in the "my club" horse-shit and the "one of us" mantra. Either way, he left during our training camp and pre-season run, causing a great deal of disruption to our preparations. Not all the disruption, granted, but a definate impact to us and our preparations. Great, we got a lot of money. Would have preferred he stay for one more season at least to see if we could meet the objectives that he signed up to. He didn't and showed no loyalty at all to the club, so I have no loyalty to him, he is just another money driven self obsessed footballer (as they mostly all are) at a plastic club, so I will treat him with the same level of distain I have for them. Now I will await the "yeah but you are posting about him" response, well yes, I am, but I am mostly responding to the laughable assertion that he could ever be considered a Villa legend. The "my club, my city" whatever stuff can still be true, though? He can simultaneously be happy about signing a contract at the club he supports and also be wanting to move to a CL club should Villa not make the top 4 (very likely). That's why all parties agreed to the release clause, presumably. Agents act in the best interest of their clients and a footballers' career is short. It would've been fantastic for him to stay, but this was a huge opportunity for him. I don't think the bit in bold is true at all. He's moved to win things. Villa are simply not in a position to be challenging for trophies on all fronts whereas Man City are. It's annoying, but that's football - and if a player is genuinely world class (which I, personally, think Grealish is) then it's likely they'll move to a "top" team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) Well, you guys are clearly happy for him and that's your right. I'm sure that you can enjoy watching him play for City if you are that interested, he is no longer a Villa player so I have no interest in what he does now unless playing against us. I have said my piece about my thoughts on him. You guys crack on justifying him leaving. I will continue to think he is a snake. Edited September 7, 2021 by TheStagMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Just now, TheStagMan said: Well, you guys are clearly happy for him and that's your right. You can enjoy watching him play for City if you are that interested. I have said my piece about my thoughts on him. You guys crack on justifying him leaving. I will continue to think he is a snake. I'm not particularly happy for him, and I'm not happy that he's gone but I can understand why he's gone. I'm certainly not going to watch him playing for City. I hope he has a shit time there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: Well, you guys are clearly happy for him and that's your right. You can enjoy watching him play for City if you are that interested. I have said my piece about my thoughts on him. You guys crack on justifying him leaving. I will continue to think he is a snake. Ahhhh, good old things that no-one has said. Classic VT. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Sam-AVFC said: Can you offer a working explanation how it would have been easier for him to leave this summer on a 3 year contract than a 4 year (with release clause) contract though? This feels like one of those things people just keep repeating to discredit other's arguments when it makes very little sense. He signed a 5 year deal in 2018 so would be in the last 2 years. No way we would get the fee we got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, StanBalaban said: I'm not particularly happy for him, and I'm not happy that he's gone but I can understand why he's gone. I'm certainly not going to watch him playing for City. I hope he has a shit time there. I am the same, i couldnt really care less What I will say is the enjoyment of watching him has gone even when he played for England which is difficult for an Irish person to say 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 im not happy for him and im not going to watch man city, by and large i wont watch england either but i do hope he succeeds, i hope he does something at man city that he cant do at aston villa, its bullshit that he seemingly cant start for england as a villa player let alone ever win a ballon dor while playing for villa but that's a wider footballing problem so is the notion that he is a better footballer now that he's at man city, when he wins MOTM in the world cup final i will happily tell my bluenose mate i **** told you so you word removed, this is what we all knew and were saying all along, again wider football problem that he has to leave to be recognised i hope he wins the lot and then i can say thats why he left as opposed to him failing, doing absolutely nothing and me saying what a **** waste, i would actually become more bitter about him leaving if he does nothing because then the transfer becomes pointless that doesn't i dont want villa to be successful, i obviously want us to invest the money and start to compete with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted September 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, tomav84 said: he might have been a villa fan once, when he was a kid. but he's not anymore. very seldom does a professional footballer continue to properly support a club whilst they are playing. they should just admit it rather than continue to claim to be a fan. if anyone thinks he walks around the house in a villa top or even watches our games anymore is deluded. Albrighton says hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, choffer said: Albrighton says hi. Mark Albrighton, Villa fan and academy raised. Loved the club through and through and we told him to take a hike because he wasn't "good enough." Yeah pretty sure we don't want to use him as a model for how the Club treats it's players/fans. People are literally using Jack's upbringing as a Villa fan to grief him into feeling bad about putting his career first. Please show me the Villa fan who has put their career on hold to continue supporting their club. No fan is ever asked to do that but we expect that of Jack. That's just delusional. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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