Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #6 - Leaders Debate 3

[PauloBarnesi]

God i hope we're not stuck with Labour.

No one party should be in power for so long imo.

I am starting to warm to that. One of the key promises in 1997 was no more sleaze. And so it was at first. But then like the Tories they all got in on the act. I ve lost count of the number of ministers involved in dodgy practices.

Maybe its politics that we should get rid?

[PauloBarnesi]

What’s Villa’s performance like under the various political parties?

[blandy]

The Tory view was "they're inefficient, therefore they must be allowed to fail".

Yes indeed that was the view of the Tory commissioned Beeching report. The one Labour said they weren’t going to act on and then did.

All as bad as each other, just because she’s still alive, doesn’t mean people like Macmillian, Wilson, Grocer Heath, Callaghan, Douglas-Home and others can be absolved from this. Labour and Tory governments have failed British industry, not often through malice, but terrible misjudgements. And I suspect more than a few workers leaders must take the blame as well

Much of that is pretty fair comment, I agree. I still think the tories are genuinely worse, because it's within their philosophy - just let the market decide everything. New Labour adopted that to a large degree, as well, but for whatever reasons (belief, political convenience - job losses in Labour areas) has made efforts (not particularly effective ones, often) to try to help manufacturing businesses that are struggling, or have had periods of struggle.

[Grant(aka_eddy)]

The company I work for does a lot of work for the local PCTs and in March they were spending money hand over fist, why because they need to use up all their budgets. Some of the stuff was a feckin disgrace I tell you.

The next government should freeze everyone in the public sectors spending on Feb 28th and then let them only spend 1/11th of what they have spent that in that financial year I wonder how much would be left over.

I was contracting for BENPCT until the start of April, there were massive cost cutting exercises going on due to the impending merger into the single pan-Birmingham commissioning organisation.

Any spending was being pushed out the door as the money is being taken away in the near future and all budget lines need to be allocated in advance and justified. Management costs are to be reduced by 40-45% over 18 months or so from the start of the year. Temps started going last year, contractors this year and unfilled vacancies had to be in place before a deadline and approved by vacancy control panel. Just before i left all posts were being offered as 12 month contracts rather than permanent positions as they will be slashed.

No need for new measures, I think what you saw was a reaction to what is already happening.

[choffer]

The company I work for does a lot of work for the local PCTs and in March they were spending money hand over fist, why because they need to use up all their budgets. Some of the stuff was a feckin disgrace I tell you.

The next government should freeze everyone in the public sectors spending on Feb 28th and then let them only spend 1/11th of what they have spent that in that financial year I wonder how much would be left over.

I agree with a freeze, but not if the budget is then cut next year. There should be "breathing space".

We have to hand back money not spent in Lambeth which is fine. And there was a spending freeze too, but I suspect this was to stop going over-budget.

A bit of an annoyance though is being donated money for education research, then having to hand that back too, if not spent. It cannot be carried over and deducted from other costs the next year.

It's similar where I work (charity where most of the money comes from BIG or DCSF). We have an almighty run in March where everyone is desperately trying to shift underspends left, right and centre. This is not because we have to try to justify the same income in future years but because the funder can't have any underspend. We get penalised if we don't spend everything we've been given, regardless of whether it's needed or not. Makes life very difficult in the final financial quarter as I have to try and balance my own budgets and respond to the huge amount of shuffling money around between various other budgets within the organisation.

I would never have imagined it being so wasteful before I came here but when I see various manifestos pledging public-sector savings, I know for sure it's all there to be saved if better controls were in place.

[PauloBarnesi]

The Tory view was "they're inefficient, therefore they must be allowed to fail".

Yes indeed that was the view of the Tory commissioned Beeching report. The one Labour said they weren’t going to act on and then did.

All as bad as each other, just because she’s still alive, doesn’t mean people like Macmillian, Wilson, Grocer Heath, Callaghan, Douglas-Home and others can be absolved from this. Labour and Tory governments have failed British industry, not often through malice, but terrible misjudgements. And I suspect more than a few workers leaders must take the blame as well

Much of that is pretty fair comment, I agree. I still think the tories are genuinely worse, because it's within their philosophy - just let the market decide everything. New Labour adopted that to a large degree, as well, but for whatever reasons (belief, political convenience - job losses in Labour areas) has made efforts (not particularly effective ones, often) to try to help manufacturing businesses that are struggling, or have had periods of struggle.

One might argue that market economics, the ideas of Adam Smith, etc, actually created industry in the first place. Our problem seems an inability to see the bigger picture anymore.

[drat01]

Our problem seems an inability to see the bigger picture anymore.

Bigger in terms of what? The UK and its trading partners or isolationist inward looking?

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

God i hope we're not stuck with Labour.

No one party should be in power for so long imo.

On the other hand I don't think lurching from one party to another every generation or so is good for the country either, Labour comes in and wipes away work of the previous government, Tories in and do the same. By the time they get to a point where they can actually change things it's time for a change again.

Sometimes I think a hung parliament for a while could be a good thing, I am 38 so I have not been lucky with UK governments in general. It could work better for the long term, smaller changes all in a general direction.

I might be wrong but I think Holland always has a hung parliment, not a European power house by any standards but it feels more stable. Do you see what I mean ?

[drat01]

"Boris Johnson to get 'superpowers' if Tories win election". The paper says Boris could "be responsible for a £16 billion budget for areas including the capital's transport network, policing and economic regeneration", making him the second most powerful mayor in the world after New York's Michael Bloomberg.

Rewards for your friends?

[blandy]

...One might argue that market economics, the ideas of Adam Smith, etc, actually created industry in the first place. Our problem seems an inability to see the bigger picture anymore.

Do you think so Paul? I don't think that's really right. Industry comes from human need, ingenuity, co-operation and creativity. From early people helping each other erect shelters, or fences for their livestock, to Ploughs, to metal tools, Blacksmiths making things for people, carpenters doing the same and so on.

The morality of Industry has changed and morphed many times both before and since Adam Smith's time.

[avfc89]

God i hope we're not stuck with Labour.

No one party should be in power for so long imo.

What are the options? Do you think the Tories will revolutionise Britain for the better?

[kidlewis]

they also did this for government adverts on radio. If they don't spend their budget they get it reduced.

What stupid idiots whoever thought that was a good idea.

I wonder how much we could save by getting rid of all these radio adverts which either tell us what we already know or what we don't want to hear.

I am assuming from your comments that your job has not got budgetary responsibilities with it

Also on the Gvmt information thing - what you are saying is just silly. Since way back when there have been Gvmt informational films and radio broadcasts. Recently we have seen things like the internet bringing more and more information to the people, but not everyone has access to the net, so you have to let people know how and where and why they may need to use public services. How would you ensure that information from Gvmt reaches people? Glossy flyers paid for by a Tax Thief / exile in Belize?

£6m spent on a climate change advert. You're telling me that is better spent on that than on the insulating inefficient homes in particular for the elderly?

classic example of waste. How many people watched that advert acted on making themselves greener? I bet it's not as many people that £6m could have helped to improve their house to become more efficient. Especially the elderly and people in social housing.

[PauloBarnesi]

...One might argue that market economics, the ideas of Adam Smith, etc, actually created industry in the first place. Our problem seems an inability to see the bigger picture anymore.

Do you think so Paul? I don't think that's really right. Industry comes from human need, ingenuity, co-operation and creativity. From early people helping each other erect shelters, or fences for their livestock, to Ploughs, to metal tools, Blacksmiths making things for people, carpenters doing the same and so on.

The morality of Industry has changed and morphed many times both before and since Adam Smith's time.

What drove British economy in the 19th C? The transfer from being an Agricultural economy through to being a Industrial economy was very much driven by ingenuity, but also by the free market economy. I am not saying it was all good...

[kidlewis]

£55m of utter waste

this website if built in the private sector would barely cost £300k let alone £55m. It gets 1m users a month which is absolutely tiny. It is a great idea but doesn't even function properly and looks pretty crap.

the data is now going to be used by third parties who will probably do a much better job for a fraction of the cost.

[Richard]

@ MikeyB - pure comedy.

Thanks Ian I was aiming low..........

So who are you voting for again? ............... :-)

Libdem.......I am pretty sure that I told you that earlier this week Ian, but I understand that it may have slipped by you with everything thats gone on this week.

Chin up.

You obviously haven't learned anything have you? Do you not realise how it works? If you are not a Labour supporter or intend to vote Labour you must be a Tory and therefore evil

[PauloBarnesi]

The Economist supports the Conservatives....

[mykeyb]

You obviously haven't learned anything have you? Do you not realise how it works? If you are not a Labour supporter or intend to vote Labour you must be a Tory and therefore evil

Any further comment from me will unfortunately cause more trouble than a miked up PM in Rochdale.

[Chindie]

I also get the impression the woman..er.. isn't the sharpest

I knew it , Chindie is Gordon Brown ..

*shakes fist*

[snowychap]

I also get the impression the woman..er.. isn't the sharpest

I knew it , Chindie is Gordon Brown ..

*shakes fist*

*Hurls mobile 'phone* might have been more appropriate. :winkold:

[Demitri_C]

I couldn't care less what people look like. I used my postal vote for the Lib Dems, as I think that the Lib Dems have the best policies, and that Clegg would make the best leader.

only reason im not voting lib dems is because of their stance on the euro, we joining disaster. his response was weak about it, and i dont like his stance on immigration either