Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #6 - Leaders Debate 3

[mykeyb]

@ MikeyB - pure comedy.

Thanks Ian I was aiming low..........

So who are you voting for again? ............... :-)

Libdem.......I am pretty sure that I told you that earlier this week Ian, but I understand that it may have slipped by you with everything thats gone on this week.

Chin up.

[drat01]

You did Mike - I was just wondering if you had changed your mind again - interesting how you reconcile your LibDem views with what you post - but hey that is another subject.

[blandy]

Back to manufacturing - I don't think anyone said all closures since for ever have been the Witch's fault, but under the tories in the 80s, that's when the decline in amnufacturing started big style. There seemed to be an attitude (as there was with the banks recently, from Osbourne) of "just let them fail". The Tory view was "they're inefficient, therefore they must be allowed to fail". I feel that view remains a core part of Tory thinking. In Germany and elsewhere the Gov'ts attitude is more like "if they're uncompetitive, we need to facilitate their improvement, to make them competitive and cring wealth into the Country, and we'll get a return on our help to them, people will have jobs, the economy will be strong..."

Labour isn't as bad as the Tories on manufacturing, but they could be a lot better than they are.

[mykeyb]

You did Mike - I was just wondering if you had changed your mind again - interesting how you reconcile your LibDem views with what you post - but hey that is another subject.

I think being critical of MON on occasions reconciles quite easily with voting Libdem. Why shouldnt it.

[drat01]

Pete - in Germany the worker rights thing is a bigger issue than it is here since the crushing of Union rights. The workers council idea and reps from all levels of the company having a say makes a big difference. Also I think I am right in saying that to just basically get rid of people is frowned upon in Germany and that helps in the fact that companies work harder to ensure that they succeed

I worked for a German company at the start of the decade and it was a refreshing change to experience the workers input into the succes of the company

[mykeyb]

Labour isn't as bad as the Tories on manufacturing, but they could be a lot better than they are.

Are you comparing the Tories of the 80s with Labour now or the tory policies and labour policies of present day.

[kidlewis]

I am not Anti-Tory, I just believe they will leave many of us without public services that we need, and leave the ordinary working people with no options or future prospects. Also, he keeps bringing up cutting "waste" What does he mean by this? He is not clear or precise in his views.

waste can be seen in many areas, one being negotiating better deals for the country so we don't get hit for years to come. It's not about cutting budgets and tax credits (although I would love to see the child trust fund ended and that money invested in reducing tuition fees for students that excels at college from poor to middle class families).

Or perhaps even use that money to subsidise scholarships to private schools for children from a poor background who is a proactive in their education and is excelling in an average state school.

I am sure some tories wouldn't like the idea of "dem poor people" getting a free private education but I think it would be a great idea personally.

Or perhaps use that money to invest in schools of excellence and bring back the grammar school.

People go on about improving all schools, but i'm afraid you aren't going to have every state school in the country on the same level of achievement, it's just impossible.

[blandy]

Both mykeyb:

...I've been looking at, for example, is the way that the MoD works in Whitehall, do we have procurement budget operates where this country seem to spend very vast sums of money developing things which we could buy off the shelf cheaper elsewhere.

ANDREW MARR: There's an awful lot of people whose jobs depends on defence manufacturing around the country, who will shiver at those words.

LIAM FOX: Well the primary job of the government is the defence of this country. And it's to make sure that our troops have the proper equipment when they need it. And if you look at what Canada's done recently...instead of developing its own it simply said "where can we buy them elsewhere in the world that will do the job for us".

ANDREW MARR: Buy more off the shelf would be your thrust from the Americans.

LIAM FOX: I think we spend too long in this country pretending that we can afford a bespoke military when actually we require a lot more off the shelf.

here

Quite clear - just buy stuff from abroad, don't keep our industry going.

Utter f*ckwits. They haven't changed a bit. Thatcher and Westlands is still the Tory way. They haven't changed, they're ruinous for all but their rich mates

[mykeyb]

The company I work for does a lot of work for the local PCTs and in March they were spending money hand over fist, why because they need to use up all their budgets. Some of the stuff was a feckin disgrace I tell you.

The next government should freeze everyone in the public sectors spending on Feb 28th and then let them only spend 1/11th of what they have spent that in that financial year I wonder how much would be left over.

[snowychap]

Or perhaps even use that money to subsidise scholarships to private schools for children from a poor background

It was called the Assisted Places scheme.

[kidlewis]

The company I work for does a lot of work for the local PCTs and in March they were spending money hand over fist, why because they need to use up all their budgets. Some of the stuff was a feckin disgrace I tell you.

The next government should freeze everyone in the public sectors spending on Feb 28th and then let them only spend 1/11th of what they have spent that in that financial year I wonder how much would be left over.

they also did this for government adverts on radio. If they don't spend their budget they get it reduced.

What stupid idiots whoever thought that was a good idea.

I wonder how much we could save by getting rid of all these radio adverts which either tell us what we already know or what we don't want to hear.

[Risso]

I couldn't care less what people look like. I used my postal vote for the Lib Dems, as I think that the Lib Dems have the best policies, and that Clegg would make the best leader. Gordon Brown is an incompetent fool, and shouldn't be in charge of a corner shop, and I don't really think that there's much substance behind the Tory policies. And that's it really.

Mart - which constituency did you vote in and what do they base it on?

It's the last place you were registered on the electoral role, which in my case is Bolton West. That mad witch Ruth Kelly has stood down, so I was deprived of the pleasure of booting her sorry ass out.

You have 15 years after you were last registered. But anyway, I was a resident there during the life of this parliament, and there's a good chance I will be again in the coming one, so I have no qualms about using my vote.

[PauloBarnesi]

[avfc89]

Education has improved under New-Labour, a lot has improved under Labour, and I'm not deluded to think they have got everything right. Kidlewis - I agree with you, children who are active in their education should be given more advantages and incentives to further their knowledge, I have nothing against that. But you must remember society is much more complex and diverse than a certain sect of people, I believe every level of Education should be developed and progressed over time, yes it takes time to implement big changes and I believe Labour will deliver more for the majority of people than a Tory Government will.

[snowychap]

Pull my finger...

[Clarry]

The company I work for does a lot of work for the local PCTs and in March they were spending money hand over fist, why because they need to use up all their budgets. Some of the stuff was a feckin disgrace I tell you.

The next government should freeze everyone in the public sectors spending on Feb 28th and then let them only spend 1/11th of what they have spent that in that financial year I wonder how much would be left over.

I agree with a freeze, but not if the budget is then cut next year. There should be "breathing space".

We have to hand back money not spent in Lambeth which is fine. And there was a spending freeze too, but I suspect this was to stop going over-budget.

A bit of an annoyance though is being donated money for education research, then having to hand that back too, if not spent. It cannot be carried over and deducted from other costs the next year.

[drat01]

they also did this for government adverts on radio. If they don't spend their budget they get it reduced.

What stupid idiots whoever thought that was a good idea.

I wonder how much we could save by getting rid of all these radio adverts which either tell us what we already know or what we don't want to hear.

I am assuming from your comments that your job has not got budgetary responsibilities with it

Also on the Gvmt information thing - what you are saying is just silly. Since way back when there have been Gvmt informational films and radio broadcasts. Recently we have seen things like the internet bringing more and more information to the people, but not everyone has access to the net, so you have to let people know how and where and why they may need to use public services. How would you ensure that information from Gvmt reaches people? Glossy flyers paid for by a Tax Thief / exile in Belize?

[Clarry]

Education has improved under New-Labour, a lot has improved under Labour, and I'm not deluded to think they have got everything right. Kidlewis - I agree with you, children who are active in their education should be given more advantages and incentives to further their knowledge, I have nothing against that. But you must remember society is much more complex and diverse than a certain sect of people, I believe every level of Education should be developed and progressed over time, yes it takes time to implement big changes and I believe Labour will deliver more for the majority of people than a Tory Government will.

Agree with both you and kidlewis.

Pupils need help from both top and bottom of educational needs. And don't forget the "average" pupils either.

[PauloBarnesi]

The Tory view was "they're inefficient, therefore they must be allowed to fail".

Yes indeed that was the view of the Tory commissioned Beeching report. The one Labour said they weren’t going to act on and then did.

All as bad as each other, just because she’s still alive, doesn’t mean people like Macmillian, Wilson, Grocer Heath, Callaghan, Douglas-Home and others can be absolved from this. Labour and Tory governments have failed British industry, not often through malice, but terrible misjudgements. And I suspect more than a few workers leaders must take the blame as well

[Jez]

God i hope we're not stuck with Labour.

No one party should be in power for so long imo.