Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #6 - Leaders Debate 3

[tonyh29]

I don't like him because he smiles funny - says a lot about the UK

how about we don't like him cause he is a bullying control freak who thinks we are all bigots ?

Maybe we can have a gif of Cameron squirming while being pressed on why he would reward the rich with inheritance tax rises?

Or better still a gif of Browns face when Cameron outlined his policy on Inheritence tax and the voter "like" worm went into orbit as the viewers agreed with it .. he's done well for the Tories has Brown , I hope they reward him for his efforts after the election

[Clarry]

Quote from my Polish girlfriend watching yesterday:

Why is Gordon Brown the only one answering the questions properly? They might not be the right answers, but he's answering the questions.

[drat01]

your defence of Labour and Brown is very stout Ian, even against the tide of opinion that is flowing the other way.

What did you make of Brown's bizzare euphoric smile outside of that woman's home the other day?

The guy just looked crazed, IMHO.

I'd day he's close to unelectable, and should there be an hung parliament, i don'rt think the lib deams would be rishing to do business with him.

With others in the labour party maybe, but not him.

and they don't need him either. A coalition govt can be formed without Brown, even if he is still the "leader" of the labour party.

I don't give a flying **** Jon what "smile" he had. Maybe we should look at Osborne and his "Window licking "gaze? - a sensible debate should have occurred based on what was said rather than how they looked. To pick on Brown because he cannot smile "properly" is frankly idiocy - maybe we should dismiss Hawking because he can't dance? Maybe Simon Weston shoudn't talk about the forces because his complexion is a bit off?

This election is showing the true state of the UK in terms of what is a major priority. The debates were a first for the UK and you can say some good came of it because we have now heard more of Clegg etc. To analyse each debate based on appearance though is worrying. Read the transcripts from the debates and see what was said - or not in the case of Dave.

Maybe the LibDems wont do business with Brown, their choice. But again are you voting on policy and principle or the person and personality?

[tonyh29]

and you can say some good came of it because we have now heard more of Clegg

surely that's a negative :-)

[PauloBarnesi]

To analyse each debate based on appearance though is worrying. Read the transcripts from the debates and see what was said - or not in the case of Dave

Why is it worrying; its human nature? Maybe human nature is to blame?

Remember JFK beat Nixon in a televised political debate which was back in 1960 because he wore a black suit, and Nixon a grey one. On black and white television, JFK stood out. Thats 50 years ago...

[tonyh29]

Remember JFK beat Nixon in a televised political debate which was back in 1960 because he wore a black suit, and Nixon a grey one. On black and white television, JFK stood out. Thats 50 years ago...

Interestingly I've read in a couple of JFK books how at the time amongst radio listeners Nixon was deemed to be the clear winner ... but on TV viewers JFK was the winner

probably TV helped win the election ..almost as much as buying the votes :-)

[drat01]

So you are happy Paul then that a person "wins" a debate based on appearance - I'm surprised then you were such a major supprter of Boris during his London Mayoral elections

Based on your flawed (IMO) view of it then maybe we should get only rich good looking people as political candidates? Maybe there is no place in UK politics for disabled people? maybe ginger haired people should avoid standing as a MP?

I'm pretty sure that is not what you are saying, but your acceptance of it certainly implies it

[bickster]

maybe ginger haired people should avoid standing as a MP?

You're onto something now

[Risso]

I couldn't care less what people look like. I used my postal vote for the Lib Dems, as I think that the Lib Dems have the best policies, and that Clegg would make the best leader. Gordon Brown is an incompetent fool, and shouldn't be in charge of a corner shop, and I don't really think that there's much substance behind the Tory policies. And that's it really.

[Malachite]

Having watched last night I'm still undecided although for the first time Cameron made comments that i know a huge amount of business people will latch onto and be aware of, in his opener he commented on the fact that the UK has to start making things again, being a nation of shopkeepers and office workers is not going to do it ( I'm amazed its taken this long for someone to realise this) and we need to break this dependency on China, that's because we are importing vast amounts of crap that we can no longer afford and its effecting everything we do. A lot of business people in this country will tell you unless we start manufacturing, making things particularly area's like Bham, then selling those products abroad and converting to hard currency for the benefit for the UK we will sink lower and lower, being a nation of call centres and retailers, retailers who don't even support there UK based manufacturers within there buying remit, (BHS, M&S and many others) i just can't see how we will get this debt paid back.

So when he made that kind of remark, that very slightly swayed me towards him and i know a lot of people in manufacturing that would be fully switched on by that remark and see that remark as good common sense. he made an excellent point for business.

Still undecided, and have to say as with other elections losing interest some what.

[drat01]

I couldn't care less what people look like. I used my postal vote for the Lib Dems, as I think that the Lib Dems have the best policies, and that Clegg would make the best leader. Gordon Brown is an incompetent fool, and shouldn't be in charge of a corner shop, and I don't really think that there's much substance behind the Tory policies. And that's it really.

Mart - which constituency did you vote in and what do they base it on?

[kidlewis]

quite obvious that his smile is completely fake. I mean he came out of Bigots house smiling as though he had just been snorting coke with her. he should look humble and remorseful.

[blandy]

I would guess that some of the required characteristics of a leader would be an ability to persuade, to cajole, to articulate, to communicate to make people want to follow them.

As much as the TV debates are salesmans pitches, still the qualities of the 3 salesmen, and their abilities in selling do matter. Perhaps not as much as the product they are selling, but it is important.

Does he come across as slippery? or is he more intent on slagging off the others' products than extolling the virtues of his own?

If you can't persuade "ordinary people" what are you going to be like trying to persuade other countries' leaders in negotiations etc.

[drat01]

Having watched last night I'm still undecided although for the first time Cameron made comments that i know a huge amount of business people will latch onto and be aware of, in his opener he commented on the fact that the UK has to start making things again, being a nation of shopkeepers and office workers is not going to do it ( I'm amazed its taken this long for someone to realise this) and we need to break this dependency on China, that's because we are importing vast amounts of crap that we can no longer afford and its effecting everything we do. A lot of business people in this country will tell you unless we start manufacturing, making things particularly area's like Bham, then selling those products abroad and converting to hard currency for the benefit for the UK we will sink lower and lower, being a nation of call centres and retailers, retailers who don't even support there UK based manufacturers within there buying remit, (BHS, M&S and many others) i just can't see how we will get this debt paid back.

So when he made that kind of remark, that very slightly swayed me towards him and i know a lot of people in manufacturing that would be fully switched on by that remark and see that remark as good common sense. he made an excellent point for business.

Still undecided, and have to say as with other elections losing interest some what.

The killing off of the manufacturing industry - I just wonder who did that? When you have a party like the Tory one that is funded by people who keep their wealth outside of this country you have to question the statements that Cameron was making. It's hypocrisy and nonsense for him to want those things when his own party created this void of manufacturing during the Thatcher regime and maintains the wealth outside of the UK. Sorry but his comments were soundbites without any substance and no policy to back them up whatsoever

[PauloBarnesi]

So you are happy Paul then that a person "wins" a debate based on appearance - I'm surprised then you were such a major supprter of Boris during his London Mayoral elections

Based on your flawed (IMO) view of it then maybe we should get only rich good looking people as political candidates? Maybe there is no place in UK politics for disabled people? maybe ginger haired people should avoid standing as a MP?

I'm pretty sure that is not what you are saying, but your acceptance of it certainly implies it

Thats not what I said; I am saying human nature is human nature. Image whether we like it or not is a huge part of this. And so is presentation. People tend to gravitate to people they like the ‘look of’. People are less enamoured by people who they don’t.

But I think in the case of Brown, people have certainly seen enough of him to make a judgement based on his policy; his presentation and look just damn him IMO. Now whether his policies are “good” or “bad”, the image of him with hands in head on Jeremy Vine does stick in the common consciousness.

I can’t change the way people think, and neither can you. Style does matter. Is it more important than substance. Of course not. But alot of people won’t think.

As for BoJo; I never ‘supported’ him. You paint me as being the man who paid for him. As if I have him on speed dial. We (as Londoners) were sick of Livingstone. Why can’t you accept that. Why can’t you understand people lost all faith in the Labour party in London? I am well aware of Boris Johnson and his failings.

[PauloBarnesi]

The killing off of the manufacturing industry - I just wonder who did that?

I am sure you mean Thatcher. But lets be honest as a country our manufacturing industry has/had been **** for most of the 20th century. You can blame a lot of people and events for that; wars, and the utter stupidity of all political parties.

[drat01]

I would guess that some of the required characteristics of a leader would be an ability to persuade, to cajole, to articulate, to communicate to make people want to follow them.

As much as the TV debates are salesmans pitches, still the qualities of the 3 salesmen, and their abilities in selling do matter. Perhaps not as much as the product they are selling, but it is important.

Does he come across as slippery? or is he more intent on slagging off the others' products than extolling the virtues of his own?

If you can't persuade "ordinary people" what are you going to be like trying to persuade other countries' leaders in negotiations etc.

I work with a lot of people who are shall we say sales led and are very good negotiators. Also I have been on numerous sales courses and negotiation workshops (sometimes very boring - sometimes very useful)

The bottom line on any sales deal though is what are we buying and what are the FAB's (Features and Benefits). Typically with our deals the sales guy is never the one that is the key point in the sale its the technical one who explains what happens and how people will utilise their investment. People do not trust a salesman

People who rely on the sales pitch only usually end up with a pile of crap

[Malachite]

drat01: I completely agree, Thatcher destroyed ruthlessly what is the spine of the UK economy, it ability to make things, the point is it needed to be said, it needs to be looked at and it needs to be addressed, regardless of how much spin Cameron puts on it and how genuine Cameron is about that point the statement he made is bang on.

Fact is untill we start making things again in the UK i just can't see how we will ever get straight.

[Jon]

quite obvious that his smile is completely fake. I mean he came out of Bigots house smiling as though he had just been snorting coke with her. he should look humble and remorseful.

spot on KL.

Shame Ian cannot even accept this point.

I don't care what he looks like, but to come out of that meeting in the manner he does was just so wrong and innappropriate.

it is not what people look like intrinsically. It is how they portray themsleves, and how they "come across".

Brown could not come across any worse if he tried.

[blandy]

...The killing off of the manufacturing industry - I just wonder who did that? When you have a party like the Tory one that is funded by people who keep their wealth outside of this country you have to question the statements that Cameron was making. It's hypocrisy and nonsense for him to want those things when his own party created this void of manufacturing during the Thatcher regime...Sorry but his comments were soundbites without any substance and no policy to back them up whatsoever

Abso-bloomin-lootely. It was hypocrisy of the first order. Thatcher started the change from manufacturing to banking and such like. And now the tories do want to cut manufacturing - they've said (Liam Fox) that they want to cancel UK defence manufacturing programmes and replace them with American equipment purchases.

There's a difference between cutting costs, as all areas will have to be cut, and cutting costs and skilled UK manufacturing jobs at the same time.

The tories are not to be trusted on manufacturing.

Edit - an Osbourne's in our Hangar right now. The twunt