CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 you been out dogging again haven't you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 you been out dogging again haven't you.you been out dogging again haven't you.What you don't see is Stan Collymore in the car next to me, the guy is a dogging legend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Talking about 'troublesome' kids, I do a lot of work on disadvantaged families (not for fun, it's my job) and one of the most overwhelming factors is how the previous generation lived. If a set of parents were disadvantaged or in need of support 3 generations ago, you can be almost positive that the same applies to the most recent generation. The normality of the situation growing up with that lifestyle is never challenged, so continues being handed down. It's quite a problem in some areas. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Talking about 'troublesome' kids, I do a lot of work on disadvantaged families (not for fun, it's my job) and one of the most overwhelming factors is how the previous generation lived. If a set of parents were disadvantaged or in need of support 3 generations ago, you can be almost positive that the same applies to the most recent generation. The normality of the situation growing up with that lifestyle is never challenged, so continues being handed down. It's quite a problem in some areas.Spot on. How can anything change when there's no drive to do anything different? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Who is the lady on the new Stella Artois advert?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Who is the lady on the new Stella Artois advert?? My wife is not the issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YLN Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Talking about 'troublesome' kids, I do a lot of work on disadvantaged families (not for fun, it's my job) and one of the most overwhelming factors is how the previous generation lived. If a set of parents were disadvantaged or in need of support 3 generations ago, you can be almost positive that the same applies to the most recent generation. The normality of the situation growing up with that lifestyle is never challenged, so continues being handed down. It's quite a problem in some areas.What is done to try and challenge these lifestyles then? And I appreciate chrisp's point that often these community centres with cafes and DJ booths etc are failures because they're seen as an uncool place to hang out, while wooden pallet and egg sales skyrocket, but surely they work sometimes..? It's not that because they sometimes get burned down that we should stop trying.Unless we should. In Africa the west is often accused of trying to impose their ideals and way of life on the Africans, and the Africans don't care for it, or don't react as we'd like them to. White is right. West knows best. They don't fawn over the new basketball court we built, or the playground. And maybe any intervention in these socially disadvantaged groups by groups like chrisp's lady or Pong is involved in are always going to be met with disdain and contempt. And why shouldn't they be? Who are we to interfere in their lives? Looking down our noses at them and flicking crumbs from our table.It's a shame that the people who the youth in these communities look up to because they have broken the cycle of social disadvantage (?) are usually illiterate footballers. It would be great if the FA put a greater emphasis on these players justifying their massive wages by being a positive role model in these communities. It's why a picture of Jack Grealish passed out in the street in Marbella should not be condoned as just a lad being a lad. Footballers who come from disadvantaged backgrounds and their equivalent are an untapped resource in the fight against me having eggs thrown at me as I walk to Lidl. What did they do next after the community centre burned down chrisp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 23, 2015 Peer group pressure is more powerful than the desire to 'better oneself'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) You have to keep on keeping on. It's corny but it's true. As Mooney says, you have to try and persuade some away from their peers. Pick off the periphery or pay off the ring leaders.You have to celebrate little victories, because one little victory is potentially a whole family put on a different course. On the case of the hub that was torched, that particular group was knocked back by lack of funds for a while - volunteers and staff were disbursed elsewhere. But I've since seen that they are back and have taken over a closed pub and have grafitti all over the outside advertising that they are a yoof club with recording rooms and stuff . It's in a part of Cardiff I rarely visit anymore.But every time your wages are converted to tax and spent teaching noisy kids how to edit rap music some of them become interested enough not to get in to trouble and go to prison and cost you £40,000 a year in accommodation. It makes their kids less likely to go to prison. It makes their grand kids less likely...SureStart and FlyingStart do similar work. Using your tax to employ women (mostly women) to explain to new young mums how to feed a baby properly and how to spot a paedo.A long hard slog, but well worth it.The annoying little bastards. Edited September 23, 2015 by chrisp65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted September 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 23, 2015 Who are you all talking about? Kids in tower blocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Any nuisance kids that don't really have decentrole models, they don't have to be in tower blocks, no automatic link. Often from sink estates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted September 23, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 23, 2015 Any nuisance kids that don't really have decentrole models, they don't have to be in tower blocks, no automatic link. Often from sink estates.Well, yeah, esp. as there all all those listed Corbusier-esque / Brutalist towers in England with £3m flats etc.. But I don't mean those ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted September 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 24, 2015 You have to celebrate little victories, because one little victory is potentially a whole family put on a different course. Like this, you mean? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 To answer question about disadvantaged families without quoting... Chris is right in one respect, you have to keep on, there are no end of schemes and programmes for the whole cohort, and also targeted to specific areas of concern (such as high populated areas of BME families from one region, or families with a series of particular concerns) but the families have to engage too. Unless you were privy to the lengths that some social workers go to, with genuine compassion to the situation I might add, you probably wouldn't realise the incentives that are out there, it's more than just a community centre. It's a very complex and intriguing thing and I'm sure there's a degree of psychological and sociological analysis that needs applying that is far above my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted September 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Peer group pressure is more powerful than the desire to 'better oneself'.I'm interested in Britain's benefits system. I worked for the old DSS at a JobCentre in London for a while before I started in the newspapers in London, and it always struck me as rather benign compared to the States' "safety net", which is far different and much much less generous.But I definitely saw a darker side in the UK, too -- an entrenched benefits subculture in north London, and it wasn't pretty -- yet it somehow seemed happier to me than the US version. There WAS a lot of mental illness, substance abuse, and a seemingly internalised lack of ambition -- people who maybe once had a desire to work but lacked self-belief to such an extent they would continually shoot themselves in the foot when on the verge of a better life.Another dimension in the UK are vestiges and shadows of the old class system. It may be mostly gone in name, but it persists within the English mind, and it really must be smashed forever. [Add lots of guns and racism, and an even deeper hopelessness, and you get the US version, by the way.]I like Mooney's point but you gotta have those healthy peers do, and where do they come from? Edited September 24, 2015 by Plastic Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted September 24, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2015 We have a couple of schemes here which are under scrutiny, pilot schemes where you basically get a life coach. Someone that will make sure you are up and out of bed, fix a proper meal, deal with the mail, get down the post office and generally function.Early days but for the ones it works on it's like a mini miracle. The cost of a month of intense one to one is thousands. The results potentially save literally hundreds of thousands where it works.One thing I will say, until recently I had presumed that a hard man 22 year old that can name ever drug and its price and get hold of bad people on their mobile phine would be able to operate a washing machine and organise beans on toast. I was wrong. There are people, adults, that need to be shown how to make beans on toast. When they can do that, when they first cook their own lunch, well bloody hell it is emotional.It will not work in a lot of cases. Just like prison doesn't. Just like no one fix ever will. It's finding the block to match the hole. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted September 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 24, 2015 We have a couple of schemes here which are under scrutiny, pilot schemes where you basically get a life coach. Someone that will make sure you are up and out of bed, fix a proper meal, deal with the mail, get down the post office and generally function. ... And if Villa don't work out for Tim ... he would be a good life coach, don't you reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PongRiddims Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 We have a couple of schemes here which are under scrutiny, pilot schemes where you basically get a life coach. Someone that will make sure you are up and out of bed, fix a proper meal, deal with the mail, get down the post office and generally function.Early days but for the ones it works on it's like a mini miracle. The cost of a month of intense one to one is thousands. The results potentially save literally hundreds of thousands where it works.One thing I will say, until recently I had presumed that a hard man 22 year old that can name ever drug and its price and get hold of bad people on their mobile phine would be able to operate a washing machine and organise beans on toast. I was wrong. There are people, adults, that need to be shown how to make beans on toast. When they can do that, when they first cook their own lunch, well bloody hell it is emotional.It will not work in a lot of cases. Just like prison doesn't. Just like no one fix ever will. It's finding the block to match the hole.Really interesting reading that, it's something you take for granted but then I know people that fit that category too. There's probably something to be addressed in the education system too, I think I only learnt how to make a flan, not much use when you move out for the first time. This might have changed now in fairness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted September 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Just diagnosed this morning with something called Meniere's disease. It's nothing scary but it is very annoying. Sort of relieved to have an explanation for the dizziness and tinnitus I've been having. I wonder if anyone here has had it?What a day! Next thing I know, someone's going to be telling me that Santa doesn't exist! Edited September 24, 2015 by Plastic Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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