The Film Thread

[kurtsimonw]

I'll watch the first one and see what it's like.

I personally don't rate it highly as a film. The second one is fantastic and not really a superhero film as such.

Civil War, on initial reaction, is the best they've done. Absolutely fantastic from start to finish.

[mikeyp102]

So an impromptu visit to the cinema to see Civil War. It's pretty good. It's got a pretty good storyline and there isn't so much of the smug cockiness.

Spoiler

Spider-Man and Ant man in the airport fight scene were brilliant.

Scarlett and Olsen were both looking lovely as usual.

[Phumfeinz]

Is it better than Avengers 2? That was disappointing I thought. 

[VillaForever1970]

15 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'll watch the first one and see what it's like.

Err the first Cap is completely different to the second one in tone and most other things, its almost entirely opposite apart from having the Captain America character in it, so don’t use that as a basis whether to see the second one or not.

The Winter Solider is an excellent with a  70’s conspiracy type vibe to it, its also go Redford in it so be default is better.

[Chindie]

Absolutely. I wouldn't right off Winter Soldier on the basis of disliking the first one (which I'd wager Stevo will ). You just need the first movie to develop context for a whole bunch of Cap's character going forward - pretty much every reveal in Winter Soldier is lessened to some extent (in a couple of cases, basically meaningless) if you're going in blind.

But they are very different and while the first is quite light and very much an old fashioned afternoon adventure, the second is more a 70s style political thriller smashed into a blockbuster, with very different tone. Civil War is by all accounts a sequel to Winter Soldier in the first instance, so it's required viewing.

[Stevo985]

Watched the first one.

Meh. 

I quite liked the setting. I don't know anything about Captain America so had no idea it was set in WW2, mostly. That was interesting.
The film was ok. I found his little rag tag bunch of merry men a bit cringeworthy to be honest and wasn't a big fan of Weaving's character as a bad guy. But it was alright I suppose. I've seen much worse comic book films than that.

I probably wouldn't be rushing to see the next one, but seeing as you guys insist I'll probably give it a watch tonight.

[HanoiVillan]

'Tin hat on'

This is why comic book movies hold no appeal for me personally. (Not saying they shouldn't be made or anything like that!)

Imagine having to watch three movies you don't want to watch in order to watch one you do. 

[kurtsimonw]

Clearly Stevo's been turned to the dark side, he just doesn't want to admit it. 😉

As for watching in order, that's not really a comic book thing. I personally think you need to watch LotR, Star Wars, etc. In order too, doesn't take anything from it.

[Rodders]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

'Tin hat on'

This is why comic book movies hold no appeal for me personally. (Not saying they shouldn't be made or anything like that!)

Imagine having to watch three movies you don't want to watch in order to watch one you do. 

 

to be honest, I think it's a bit overblown. I could watch all any of them and enjoy well enough without knowing anything else going in - I mean it's standardish action film with either humour or thrills dependent on the vibe of each one you've got. It's rather a case of it adds more to it if you're aware of other japes and what not in the Universe. 

[Chindie]

48 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

'Tin hat on'

This is why comic book movies hold no appeal for me personally. (Not saying they shouldn't be made or anything like that!)

Imagine having to watch three movies you don't want to watch in order to watch one you do. 

Can certainly see the point. It's a bit of a commitment if you've not kept up with the series and want to jump in fit a specific movie.

But I'd raise this. With Marvel, you're watching a series of movies that share characters and exist in an overlapping world to differing extents. Civil War is at one and the same time Captain America 3, and an continuation of character development that began in some ways 8 years ago. You wouldn't jump in to the Game of Thrones series at book (or series) 3, at least not without at least knowing what happened in the previous 2. The MCU breaks that down a bit because, at this point, there are 13 movies that share characters, but you can just follow series and immediately related films. You don't need to have watched Guardians to understand Avengers 2. You don't need to have watched Thor 2 to get anything from Cap 2. Etc. 

There's a comparison with book series that develop worlds. I'm an enormous Pratchett fan. He wrote dozens of Discworld novels over near enough 30 years, developing a world that had hundreds of characters that cameoed or were referenced across books. And within that individual series cropped up, a series about the adventures of a police force in a city, a series about a loose coven of witches in a satire of rural England, a series about the personification of Death and related people and concepts, and many more. You could easily just read the novels about the coppers and never touch the rest, you'd miss some references and some concepts would be dropped on you a bit but you could easily enjoy them. You could jump in to the police series 3 books in, when the characters were set and you could enjoy the books, but you'd have missed out on the development to get there and whole elements of those characters don't make sense (the main character goes from a dead end broken cynic alcoholic, to the forefront of a modernising force with ever vigilant alcohol monkey on his back, and even greater cynicism, with great disdain for many things he's encountered, and sudden stature in society he doesn't know how to deal with). The MCU does the same thing, but with a bit less subtlety, particularly with Cap's character.

[VillaForever1970]

5 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Watched the first one.

Meh. 

I quite liked the setting. I don't know anything about Captain America so had no idea it was set in WW2, mostly. That was interesting.
The film was ok. I found his little rag tag bunch of merry men a bit cringeworthy to be honest and wasn't a big fan of Weaving's character as a bad guy. But it was alright I suppose. I've seen much worse comic book films than that.

I probably wouldn't be rushing to see the next one, but seeing as you guys insist I'll probably give it a watch tonight.

Very different second, solid film.

[Stevo985]

4 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

 

Clearly Stevo's been turned to the dark side, he just doesn't want to admit it. 

I've always said when comic book films are good, then they're good. Like any genre really. I'm always willing to watch the good ones.

I just think the majority of them are crap. Which I stand by. The majority of them are shit. The first Captain America did little to turn me away from that general rule of thumb. 

But I'm hoping the second one and Civil War will fall into the good category.

[Stevo985]

5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

'Tin hat on'

This is why comic book movies hold no appeal for me personally. (Not saying they shouldn't be made or anything like that!)

Imagine having to watch three movies you don't want to watch in order to watch one you do. 

That's not really a comic book thing.

If I told you the Bourne Ultimatum was a really good film I'd also tell you you'd need to see the first two films before you watched it.

[Ginko]

@Stevo985Winter Soldier is way better than the first Captain America. If you thought the first film was okay I think you'll genuinely like Winter Soldier.

I watched Civil War last night and it's the best film in the MCU. Even a little better than the first Avengers though it is quite a different film. The Russo brothers have done brilliantly but I was concerned that Winter Soldier succeeded because it was a tighter story without the real threat of global domination, alien invasion or a bigger roster of characters to squeeze in. 

Well, they certainly nailed the bigger roster in Civil War. Every character had their part and even though some were bigger than others, the lesser-used characters still shine, particularly Ant-Man and Spidey. They were definitely my favourite parts of the movie. 

I wont mention the antagonist and the threat he poses because of spoilers, but I thought it was great and something a little different.

Best MCU film to date. See it on the big screen. If you don't grin when you see Spider-Man you have no soul 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Ginko

[coda]

Watched Son of Saul yesterday. Such a distinctive approach to that subject. Won't be watching it again.

[Chindie]

I also saw Captain America Civil War yesterday.

Civil War was a summer event in Marvel Comics about 10 years ago, written by Mark Millar, who has seemed unusually able to get his stories adapted for screen (he also wrote Kick Ass, Kingsman, etc etc). The story concerned the fallout of a disaster caused by some superpowered teenagers that destroyed a school, after which it is decided that super powered individuals could no longer be allowed to remain anonymous and would have to be registered, and effectively employed by the government. A bunch of heroes decide this is a good thing, notably Tony Stark's Iron Man who is personally touched by the tragedy when the mother of a child who died confronts and blames him, and a bunch go rogue, under Captain America, who's belief in liberty and distrust of powerful organisations controlling people sparks him to rebel. The series ultimately leads to pretty much every Marvel character becoming embroiled in the conflict, with tragedy scattered throughout.

Which makes adapting the story interesting. In essence, you can't, at this moment in time, adapt a perfect version of Civil War. Rights issues mean significant characters are off limits, the build up and development of the conflict spanned literally hundreds of pages, the MCU doesn't have secret identities really so the initial spark for conflict has to change, some moments simply wouldn't work on screen, etc etc.

So Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely didn't. The writers of all of the Cap films so far (as well as a Thor 2, and the upcoming Avengers Infinity War double bill) take some elements of that story, and carefully wind in elements of the ongoing Cap story to create a great narrative that pushes the MCU forward with aplomb.

It's impossible to talk story, even in broad terms, without some spoilers for Winter Soldier, so if you haven't seen that (and you should, it's great), don't read any of the following. Go watch Winter Soldier, and ideally the first Cap as well, and then go see this.

Anyway... the film opens with a flashback. Its 1991, a Siberian base, a Hydra base, is opened by Russian soldiers who bring the Winter Soldier out of deep freeze and task him to retrieve something, with no witnesses. We cut to the present day, the new Avengers team, formed after Age of Ultron (Cap, Falcon, Black Widow and Scarlet Witch) are chasing down Cap's former colleague, Brock Rumlow, aiming to prevent him stealing a biological weapon. In the process, they inadvertently kill a number of innocents, and that, coupled to the damage and loss of life caused by Cap and co over the events of the Avengers, Winter Soldier and Avengers 2, leads the UN to demand the Avengers become a sanctioned group answerable to, and acting only on the orders of, the UN. Stark, shown the harm he's caused, chooses to agree to this course of action, whilst Cap distrusts the power that could be held by a supranational organisation. Twists and turns see Cap become personally entangled in the conflict, perhaps unable to be objective, new players enter the game with their own agendas, and nobody may be right.

The immediate fear with any of the team up movies in Marvel's Cinematic Universe is they descend into a mess, with characters having no time to breathe and the whole thing creaking the weight of it's own mythos. The Avengers movies have got away with it by carefully taking their time and being quite light on their feet. Given that Civil War is helmed by the Russo brothers, only on their second blockbuster feature, and tasked with not only taking a huge story that asks for characters to depart their usual positions and mannerisms, and introduce 2 new characters with their own back stories, you'd certainly be concerned. Those fears are, however, unfounded. The writers and Russo brothers have been careful to give strong through lines to the plot, safety lines the rest of the movie grabs onto and, even when it's descending into completely overblown action, you can understand why they are stood over there and why he's trying to stop them doing that.

And that overblown action is great. We get a brilliant almost Bond like scene setter opening set piece where we see the new Avengers team actually working as a team, a fun chase sequence that whilst simplistic is heart pounding, a couple of close quarters punch ups that have weight in more ways than one, and, at the centre, a superb set piece which may be the best action sequence in any super hero movie, that cleverly recognises what each of these characters brings to the table and actually has compelling ways of showing how their powers and abilities can work together and against each other. I can't overemphasise how good this sequence is. It has surprises, emotional weight, laughs and spectacle by the bucketload.

Despite all that though, this is a story about Steve Rogers. And Chris Evans is absolutely excellent. He's been great as Cap since the get go and here he just continues that. Cap can be a bland character, but placed into situations where he can't be a boy scout, his honourability takes on a new facet and we get to see that here. Downey Jr is back as Iron Man and brings the best performance he's given since the movie that started this whole series. I like Stark as a character and RDJ is always good fun in that role to my mind, but this movie steps away from the Whedon-ised version, which can be a walking quip machine, and brings a slight element of pathos - this is a Tony Stark that's tired of being Iron Man, whose life is starting to lose it's sheen. He still is fast with the one liner or sarcasm, on occasion, but he is refreshingly less cocksure. The rest of the returning cast are all excellent, with particular mentions to Sebastian Stan, who has a fairly thankless task effectively playing a Terminator that was slowly remembering it was a man once, Anthony Mackie, who's Falcon continues to grow into this universe, and Paul Rudd, who has an argument for stealing the movie under everyone else's nose. We also get a bit of fleshing out for Scarlet Witch and Vision, who are both characters that can be taken to places the series hasn't quite attempted yet, but this is a step on that road. And it's great to see General Ross back, a nice cameo for William Hurt, from the forgotten MCU movie, the Incredible Hulk.

We also have 2 notably new players, Chadwick Boseman as T'Challa, a prince of a mysterious African nation called Wakanda, that produces the metal Cap's shield is made of, and Tom Holland as Spiderman. Boseman is superb. T'Challa is a difficult part, he's both regal and wrath filled, a man not to cross, but Boseman manages both sides of his personality brilliantly and he adds a brilliant wildcard to proceedings. The film is careful to show he actually is a threat, as the character can be a little overly silly, and they do just manage it. Holland is the best Spiderman we've had, and the best Peter Parker too. Andrew Garfield was 80, 90% of the way there, but Holland smashes it. His Parker is a teenage geek bestowed with power, he moves and acts like Spidey should, theres genuine joy in his fighting style and his banter, and finally we're shown that Spiderman is actually a force to be reckoned with. The suit also grew on me, it's not quite the, in my view, perfect ASM2 one, but it's close enough to classic that I really like it. I'm greatly looking forward to both of the individual outings for these guys, and Black Panther in particular should bring us something a little different.

Finally we have a new villain. Marvel famously has a problem with villains. They've wasted loads of them. Cap's nemesis, the Red Skull? Vapourised by the Tesseract in 1 movie (I have hopes they'll bring him back, as he's THE Cap villain, but I doubt they will). Iron Man? Killed the Iron Monger, killed Whiplash after about 15 minutes screen time, ruined the Mandarin to the extent they've half-heartedly retconned it. Etc etc. The only ones they've managed to do anything with that have let the villains develop beyond a 1 movie nemesis is Loki and arguably the Winter Soldier. This movie almost fixes that. We get a different villain to those we've seen before, and by his nature we're never quite sure of them. The character has inspiration in the comics, but pretty much in name only which isn't necessarily a bad thing. This has a downside though - they're a bit absentee, but this helps the movie's other moments breathe. But they're played very well, very good casting, and hopefully a sign that Marvel might finally be able shift into recognising that a good villain in these things is priceless.

I saw Civil War yesterday and was mulling over where exactly it stands in the MCU. Some have said it's a weaker movie than Winter Soldier, and I can see why you'd make that call. Winter Soldier is very singular, the story is fairly straight and tight, has that 70s conspiracy vibe, has a fantastic reveal, and shakes up the MCU to break way from 7 films of status quo. Civil War is more vanilla super hero story, albeit one with a clever basis (effectively the same basis as BvS, but this knows how to do that story properly, and benefits from doing it with 8 years of back story to mine), it's reveals are more spectacular but they don't change things. But Civil War feels so much bigger. It feels like a smart way of taking this mass of characters and giving them internal doubt and seeing what would happen... and in doing so changes the universe on a fundamental, character level, so it feels more special than Winter Soldier in that facet. Is it better than the Avengers? That's a big call. The Avengers was that special moment. We'd never seen anything like it. 4 years of build up, enormous spectacle, a fun villain, directed by a true comic book guy, funny and engaging. It's still a great movie, even it's sequel couldn't quite grasp the lightning in a bottle effect. But Civil War takes that movie and strips a little of the over the top lightness away. It has a little more depth to it, the Cap in the Avengers doesn't argue with Stark like he does here, had Stark and Cap suited up in their Avengers squabble their fight would not be the fight we have here. The whole thing is a little more grounded, with a little more bite. 

Civil War is the best movie in the MCU. It's brilliant.

For reference, there are 2 post credit scenes. The first acts as an epilogue to the movie and ties up a minor loose end and establishes where things stand for a couple of characters. The second is short nice moment for a character that doesn't really add anything, so if you're desperate to run to the loo, don't worry too much. On that note, this is a long movie, it's 2 and a half hours and there are lots of characters talking to each other scenes between the action, which many younger children are not going to enjoy. It's a 12a and follows on from the Winter Soldier in terms of violence, in that it's a little more grounded (a little less lasers, a little more people smacking each other with bits of metal), there are a couple of visual references to suicide and theres a bit of blood in some climatic scenes.

[hogso]

Would anyone be interested in reviews of Chindie's reviews? 

Cos I firmly believe the above is his greatest achievement thus far. Top stuff. 

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, coda said:

Watched Son of Saul yesterday. Such a distinctive approach to that subject. Won't be watching it again.

Would you recommend it? I'm thinking of going to the cinema tonight. 

Obviously I know it'll be harrowing, depressing etc etc but is it worth putting myself through?

[Xela]

Ted 2: 

Some genuine laugh out loud hilarious moments but overall weaker than the first film. 5/10

[coda]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Would you recommend it? I'm thinking of going to the cinema tonight. 

Obviously I know it'll be harrowing, depressing etc etc but is it worth putting myself through?

Definitely worth seeing. It's such a bold visual style but it's relentless.