Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Legia Warszawa

[rjw63]

Sounds like the maniac plumbers had all disappeared when the Villa fans came out of the ground

[PaulC]

So we need a point from the final game to be sure of top spot. We can still rest players and get that. 

[allani]

So looking at the table - if we were to lose 0-1 in our last match then Legia still need to beat AZ either 3-0 or 4-2 (or by more obviously).  Otherwise we will go through on goal difference or goals scored.  But obviously a nice easy 0-4 away win would be better for my blood pressure!!!

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, rjw63 said:

Sounds like the maniac plumbers had all disappeared when the Villa fans came out of the ground

I'm actually really happy about that. Hate to think that decent folks are getting hurt by thugs right now. 

Only ever saw one piece of trouble in all my years at VP, and it was squashed by the cops quick.

[HKP90]

6 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

 

Awww. Look at his little face!!!!

[ender4]

4 minutes ago, allani said:

So looking at the table - if we were to lose 0-1 in our last match then Legia still need to beat AZ either 3-0 or 4-2 (or by more obviously).  Otherwise we will go through on goal difference or goals scored.  But obviously a nice easy 0-4 away win would be better for my blood pressure!!!

It’s not decided on Goal Difference but on Head-to-Head results. 

[allani]

Just now, ender4 said:

It’s not decided on Goal Difference but on Head-to-Head results. 

The head-to-head result is a draw 3 points each and 4-4 on goals.  So I think it then goes to goal difference across all the games and then goals scored.  The head-to-head is now completely nullified (unless away goals count which I don't believe they do).

[Lord Willard]

So weve finished top then? Unless some crazy goal difference swing happens

[briny_ear]

14 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

Sounds like the maniac plumbers had all disappeared when the Villa fans came out of the ground

Good news. I was worrying about people getting home safely.

[Jas10]

 

[Jas10]

So good to see both JJ and Moreno out there today, hopefully they can both stay fit and make us even better. Big players for us.

[bannedfromHandV]

Good performance overall, a bit laborious in the first half but stepped it up enough in the second.

Olsen didn’t put a foot wrong, which I’m sure he’s delighted with. Moreno did better as the game went on culminating in the winning goal and a great moment for him and the fans alike.

Kamara has that pass in him most games, we just usually get lucky and don’t concede, I thought Lenglet played pretty well again, McGinn had a bit of an off night I thought.

Real shame to not have wrapped up the group tonight but getting the win was the primary objective, Bailey just needed to lob that one a bit more (a la Watkins at Chelsea last season).

 

[Brumstopdogs]

45 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

Unai is brilliant. His Villa team are brilliant. That was not brilliant but we still won.

Life as a Villa fan is pretty brilliant at the moment to be fair! Remember when we had to play brilliantly just to stand a chance of winning a game? Onwards and upwards.

[Lord Willard]

Because we’ve scored more goals away from home. We’ve finished top no?

[ozvillafan]

Job done - shame we gifted them one.

3 things I learned:

• There is always time to celebrate a goal, especially given the circumstances around Moreno's return. Not sure why we were so keen to kick off quickly again as we had > 30 minutes still in the game.
• Olsen is a good backup keeper. Good with his feet, safe with his hands and almost got an assist!
• Kamara is the most calm/serene/relaxed player I've ever seen in a Villa shirt. Sometimes, that's his undoing.

[allani]

24 minutes ago, allani said:

The head-to-head result is a draw 3 points each and 4-4 on goals.  So I think it then goes to goal difference across all the games and then goals scored.  The head-to-head is now completely nullified (unless away goals count which I don't believe they do).

Article 16 Equality of points – group stage

16.01

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied in the order given to determine their rankings:

1. higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question;

2. superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question;

3. higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question;

4. if, after having applied criteria a) to c), teams still have an equal ranking, criteria a) to c) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the remaining teams to determine their final rankings. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria e) to k) apply in the order given to the two or more teams still equal;

5. superior goal difference in all group matches;

6. higher number of goals scored in all group matches;

7. higher number of away goals scored in all group matches;

8. higher number of wins in all group matches;

9. higher number of away wins in all group matches;

10. lower disciplinary points total based only on yellow and red cards received by players and team officials in all group matches (red card = 3 points, yellow card = 1 point, expulsion for two yellow cards in one match = 3 points);

11. higher club coefficient (see Annex D)

So 1 - 3 are now irrelevant. 

If we lose our last match and Legia win then 4a becomes equal (some point from the other 4 fixtures). 

So it then comes down to goal difference in the other 4 matches (ours is currently +5 and Legia are +2).  We have scored 7 in the 3 games so far and Legia have scored 4 in their 3 matches.  So if we lose 1-0 we'd be +4 (7 goals) so if Legia win 2-0 they would be +4 (6 goals) so we would still go through by having scored 1 more goal according to 4c.  If Legia won 3-0 then they'd win on goal difference (4b) and if they win by 2 but score at least 4 goals then they win on goals scored (4c).

If Legia win 3-1 (and we lose 1-0) then I think we get to rule 7 - we've scored 6 away goals so far from 2 matches and Legia have scored 3 from 3 - so we would then qualify top. 

I don't think that 8 or 9 can happen (we'd have won the same number of matches and both won 1 game away from home). 

And I have no idea what the current position is on disciplinary points but it is irrelevant anyway because the teams cannot get past Criteria 7 under any circumstance and we're ahead on that measure and Legia have already played 3 away matches and so can't change that.

Edited November 30, 2023 by allani

[allani]

13 minutes ago, Lord Willard said:

Because we’ve scored more goals away from home. We’ve finished top no?

Away goals in the head-to-head equation is not taken into consideration.  It does come in at criteria 7 and we've scored more away goals than Legia.  So effectively Legia have to overturn the +3 goal difference that we have over them or get the goal difference level AND score 4 more goals in their last match then we score in ours. 

So there are significantly more scenarios under which we finish top than there are scenarios under which Legia can top the group - but it is still possible that we don't finish top.

Edited November 30, 2023 by allani

[briny_ear]

15 minutes ago, allani said:

Article 16 Equality of points – group stage

16.01

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied in the order given to determine their rankings:

1. higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question;

2. superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question;

3. higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question;

4. if, after having applied criteria a) to c), teams still have an equal ranking, criteria a) to c) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the remaining teams to determine their final rankings. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria e) to k) apply in the order given to the two or more teams still equal;

5. superior goal difference in all group matches;

6. higher number of goals scored in all group matches;

7. higher number of away goals scored in all group matches;

8. higher number of wins in all group matches;

9. higher number of away wins in all group matches;

10. lower disciplinary points total based only on yellow and red cards received by players and team officials in all group matches (red card = 3 points, yellow card = 1 point, expulsion for two yellow cards in one match = 3 points);

11. higher club coefficient (see Annex D)

So 1 - 3 are now irrelevant. 

If we lose our last match and Legia win then 4a becomes equal (some point from the other 4 fixtures). 

So it then comes down to goal difference in the other 4 matches (ours is currently +5 and Legia are +2).  We have scored 7 in the 3 games so far and Legia have scored 4 in their 3 matches.  So if we lose 1-0 we'd be +4 (7 goals) so if Legia win 2-0 they would be +4 (6 goals) so we would still go through by having scored 1 more goal according to 4c.  If Legia won 3-0 then they'd win on goal difference (4b) and if they win by 2 but score at least 4 goals then they win on goals scored (4c).

If Legia win 3-1 (and we lose 1-0) then I think we get to rule 7 - we've scored 6 away goals so far from 2 matches and Legia have scored 3 from 3 - so we would then qualify top. 

I don't think that 8 or 9 can happen (we'd have won the same number of matches and both won 1 game away from home). 

And I have no idea what the current position is on disciplinary points but it is irrelevant anyway because the teams cannot get past Criteria 7 under any circumstance and we're ahead on that measure and Legia have already played 3 away matches and so can't change that.

Oh blimey! This is complicated and legalistic.
 

Do you think the final decision is made by the European Court of Justice??? 

[Adam2003]

How come we don’t top the group now? One win each in the head to head, 3-2 to them and 2-1 to us, and we have better goal difference? If it’s head to head shouldn’t it be us on away goals? Must have missed the rule somewhere so please tell me! Edit: forget that, should have read on more - explained in detail! Thanks!

Edited November 30, 2023 by Adam2003

[Vive_La_Villa]

Villa fans singing ‘you’ve seen the Villa, now **** off home‘ to an empty away stand