bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: Well no, because of the obvious physical differences. Interesting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bobzy said: Interesting. So your point is people can't comment or question the quality of the pinical of women's football because they're women?? Nobody questions the quality of female golf, hockey, tennis, etc.. because it's not in question. It's clearly elite. Edited August 9, 2023 by jimmygreaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 41 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: So your point is people can't comment or question the quality of the pinical of women's football because they're women?? Nobody questions the quality of female golf, hockey, tennis, etc.. because it's not in question. It's clearly elite. The initial comment wasn't about the quality though. It was that Sunday league was better quality than the women's World Cup If you think quality is poor, say it but saying a male match would be better is not the right comparison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 7 hours ago, bobzy said: I remember Serena Williams (might have been Venus?) challenged any lower ranked male tennis player and got comprehensively beaten by some guy ranked 300 odd in the World - but then this seemed to put an end to female/male comparisons in tennis. People can view the women's draw and men's draw as entertaining in their own rights without the need to comment on whether or not Swiatek beats a retired Federer or something. I don't follow women's golf at all, but is there the same comparison between whoever Charlie Hull is and lower ranked male counterparts? Your post would imply that it's not a thing and the women's tour and men's tour are seen as different beasts (altered yardage etc of course). I've also never heard of it in cricket, but maybe this same discourse happens across the sporting spectrum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Zatman said: The initial comment wasn't about the quality though. It was that Sunday league was better quality than the women's World Cup If you think quality is poor, say it but saying a male match would be better is not the right comparison. But why not? What other comparison would there be? For example, you might want to hypothetically discuss the ultimate tennis player, and go on to suggest the serve of Nadal combined with the backhand of Federer, the forehand volley of Serina Williams, smash of Murray, etc.... You're identifying elite skills. If a similar conversation took place in the sphere of football what traits and who from are we picking from the woman's game at this moment in time? Edited August 9, 2023 by jimmygreaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I will be happy to criticise all the male players on the weekend who are diving as it doesn't happen in the tougher womens game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Did she say “for me, they’re almost two completely different sports”? Well I’ll be damned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 55 minutes ago, Zatman said: The initial comment wasn't about the quality though. It was that Sunday league was better quality than the women's World Cup So was it about quality of not? It seems to boil down to people being defensive about criticism of women’s football for whatever reason. We all love to pile on to the likes of Chelsea spending a fortune and getting worse, or Maguire and his calamitous **** ups, or small heath blowing the wage budget on an ex-con who can’t run anymore. But to suggest some of the sides in the women’s world cup are of a non-league men’s standard strikes a nerve. It was never a sweeping statement about all the teams in the world cup, especially England who are often excellent to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, Genie said: So was it about quality of not? It seems to boil down to people being defensive about criticism of women’s football for whatever reason. We all love to pile on to the likes of Chelsea spending a fortune and getting worse, or Maguire and his calamitous **** ups, or small heath blowing the wage budget on an ex-con who can’t run anymore. But to suggest some of the sides in the women’s world cup are of a non-league men’s standard strikes a nerve. It was never a sweeping statement about all the teams in the world cup, especially England who are often excellent to watch. Why dont you compare them to other women's players though as thats the argument. Nobody is saying the England womens centre back is better than Maguire or that Rachel Daly could bang in more Championship goals than Deeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, Zatman said: Why dont you compare them to other women's players though as thats the argument. Nobody is saying the England womens centre back is better than Maguire or that Rachel Daly could bang in more Championship goals than Deeney I can compare to who I like, why does it trigger you so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Genie said: But to suggest some of the sides in the women’s world cup are of a non-league men’s standard strikes a nerve. Can only speak personally here, but it’s just such a lazy comment which is exactly the kind of stigma that women’s football is trying to get away from - that it’s shit football. I want my daughters to be encouraged to play the game, not to constantly be derided as shit compared to the male equivalent. Obviously you’re not going that far, but it’s exactly that sort of lazy commentary (and loads of people say it) which endorses it - which is why I commented that it’s **** dull. If you go to the Aston Villa Women thread, it’s actual good discussion rather than “man, so poor. Men’s Sunday League is better”. Edit: and as I’ve said before, nothing wrong with saying that. It’s just dull, non-insightful stuff. Nothing offensive. (Though I do wonder if other sports suffer the same stuff; doesn’t appear to really be the case although @snedid mention about American sports that I don’t watch). Edited August 9, 2023 by bobzy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 hours ago, jimmygreaves said: So your point is people can't comment or question the quality of the pinical of women's football because they're women?? Nobody questions the quality of female golf, hockey, tennis, etc.. because it's not in question. It's clearly elite. The Women's game is vastly improved to what it was 15 years ago. I used to criticise the goalkeeping when I first started watching it in late 2000s but that's generally of a very good standard now. It's really futile comparing it to Mens game as let's remember in 1921 it was banned as competitive sport for pretty much half a century so development was lost then and was basically amateur level up to early 2000s so it's developed at a rapid pace since. There's also a very nice family feel to matchdays so for people wanting a cheaper and hassle free day out it will be a pretty good alternative to top level football now that is comfortably exceeding 100 quid if you want to take kids to watch the mens team play at VP for many games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Genie said: So was it about quality of not? It seems to boil down to people being defensive about criticism of women’s football for whatever reason. We all love to pile on to the likes of Chelsea spending a fortune and getting worse, or Maguire and his calamitous **** ups, or small heath blowing the wage budget on an ex-con who can’t run anymore. But to suggest some of the sides in the women’s world cup are of a non-league men’s standard strikes a nerve. It was never a sweeping statement about all the teams in the world cup, especially England who are often excellent to watch. Not at all. Plenty of people are criticising Lauren James for instance and rightly so as her sending off was ridiculous and on another night would've eliminated England. That's where it's important Women's football dosen't get easier ride compared to Male counterparts otherwise it's basically a mentality of taking part is all that matters and results are of secondary importance and we're long past that stage in development of Lionesses. Where it is very tedious is analogies like Erling Haaland would just defeat them all on his own or whatever or a non league player would beat the backline for pace etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Zatman said: I will be happy to criticise all the male players on the weekend who are diving as it doesn't happen in the tougher womens game Not a problem ... but do we want to compare different aspects of women's and men's football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted August 9, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 9, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 15 hours ago, bobzy said: Interesting. Who'd a thunk it. 12 hours ago, bobzy said: If you go to the Aston Villa Women thread, it’s actual good discussion rather than “man, so poor. Men’s Sunday League is better”. I do want to pull at this for a moment. The 'Aston Villa Women' thread *is* now pretty good, but when it started the first few weeks and months was very much as this thread has been over the last 24 hours (worse, even) with people coming in to say it was shit and they weren't interested. It took time to get across to people that the thing to do if you don't care is to go to a different thread and write about something else you do care about, and it's very frustrating that we're now seemingly back to that point. I do think it's very important forum hygiene to strongly discourage people from going into threads about a particular hobby or interest to say that it's shit, because it's obvious that the people who read it will primarily be people who like the thing and get annoyed (aka, it's trolling). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 15 hours ago, bobzy said: Did she say “for me, they’re almost two completely different sports”? Well I’ll be damned. Lol, trying to claim that as some sort of victory? The ball almost went in = the ball didn't go in. I almost died = I didn't die "almost two different sports" = "aren't two different sports". What do you know, even Serena Williams agrees its THE SAME SPORT. Well I'll be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Watched a few games, jesus these women are barely footballers are they? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Thug said: Lol, trying to claim that as some sort of victory? The ball almost went in = the ball didn't go in. I almost died = I didn't die "almost two different sports" = "aren't two different sports". What do you know, even Serena Williams agrees its THE SAME SPORT. Well I'll be damned. Nope. And no-one is claiming that the rules are any different. You OK btw hun? So much anger. Your blood pressure must be crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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