Captain_Townsend Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: We have a global brand that's been seen all over the world by millions of people in an iteration that's been around for coming up on 20 years - that iteration of our global brand has been associated with mediocrity for pretty much it's entire lifetime. Now here we are on the edge of shedding mediocrity and presenting ourselves as the next big thing, with a brand image that's exciting - a winner - we've done that this season with a slight confusion of branding, but we could have done it by completely changing and starting again to get a new brand recognition - to throw the yellow lion out with mediocrity and go forward with a new badge, a new attitude, a new team and a new Aston Villa. I think the timing for change was near perfect. This is it. For 25 years, at least, this debate about the crest has rumbled on. A constant theme of early villa Internet was 'return to the round badge'. In 2007 we got a big rebrand and it wasn't universally loved, at all. Worse, it became associated with decline and us becoming a soft touch. In 2022 we got the rebrand wr wanted and it coincided with an upturn in fortunes! Of course, it was not universally loved but definitely they got off lighter than the 2007 rebrand. The bit sticking in my craw is not that I assume I know more than experts, I know I Don't! What sticks in my craw is that I have followed this debate for 25 years so I feel I know it inside out and yet a new employee walks in in May 2023 and decides to unilaterally ditch the rebrand and lead us back towards the Lerner concept. I just find it frustrating to see how it unfolded. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 14 Moderator Share Posted May 14 But again to go back to my original moan - one of the things that the process over the last few years has taught me is that I'm no great judge of a badges aesthetic, but also that the aesthetic isn't actually the key, it's the association that matters and that's where constant change becomes so harmful. I don't like the upcoming badge, from a personal taste point of view I find it a bit garish and it reminds me of the 2010's - like Paul Lambert in an Hawaiian shirt - but if we were to keep it for thirty years, and even more than that, if we were to have some success over that period, to become what we might become, then in ten years time that idea of what it looks like won't matter, it'd be 'us' and 'us' would be something I'd be proud of. Longevity breeds affection, it fosters pride, there's a comfort in permanence in Villa always being Villa no matter how (subjectively) ugly the badge might be to others. It becomes something special over time - it gains value through that familiarity - it's why we hanker after old brands, why we love that British Rail symbol and Opal Fruits - by putting in place designs that are (subjectively) poor, then getting rid of them as soon as they start to stick, we end up in a spiral of meh - like some sort of footballing Zsa Zsa Gabor, lost in the idea of another big wedding. I prefer the badge on the shirts this season, I don't like this badge - but I'd like us to keep it for thirty years so that I can learn to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 From a design perspective the execution is off. From a marketing perspective it's a missed opportunity to do something really bold. At least the Purslow badge got the first part right, thus I rather just stick with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 41 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: For me, the Chelsea thing is overplayed because of the obsession with short termism - people might think of it as too similar to Chelsea's, but give it thirty years and it would be absolutely definitively ours - the modern world of commerce demands we have a new branding every four or five years - it fits in with the cycle of CEO's and keeps a lot of marketeers in business, but each and every iteration is really an expression of the failure of the previous team to build something worth keeping. I disagree. The biggest issue (for me) is that the badge is round as are several other in the PL and style wise there's a lot of design similarities. So you don't own the shape of the badge (because others are using it) and lose a lot of the stylistic elements too. The new crest is a unique shape (which I assume we will have some protection on) - immediately you can use it in the way that we've seen with the Adidas / Villa "advertising" this week and it is obvious who it relates too. That would have been a lot less effective / more difficult within the constraints of a round badge. With the crest we have so much more flexibility because (pretty quickly) that crest will obviously be Aston Villa - whether it is in black and white, grey, etc. It gives us a whole heap of more options to say Aston Villa without having to use the words or our colours. I get why people wanted a round badge (I've got plenty of Villa merchandise with a round badge and it looks cool in a nostalgic way) but from a branding / marketing perspective it sucks. It's an example of what happens when you try to design something that will be popular rather than something that will be unique and effective. I thought it was bland and nondescript and made us look like a follower rather than an innovator. It's a shame more of the other designs weren't shared more widely as from what you've said in the past there could have been some that delivered an exciting option. It just feels like the decision to go "round" was made very early and so other options weren't explored other than to maybe reinforce the round decision (that might be a harsh opinion and I'd be open to correction if you felt differently being there). (For clarity I am not a fan of the yellow / blue issue but I do like a lot of what we've seen this week). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 14 Moderator Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, allani said: It just feels like the decision to go "round" was made very early and so other options weren't explored other than to maybe reinforce the round decision (that might be a harsh opinion and I'd be open to correction if you felt differently being there). It wasn't at all. The design team were keen to try all sorts of options and put lots of stuff in front of us - the 'problem', if you like, was that as soon as round was put on the table it was obvious that it would be what Villa fans wanted, it was the overwhelming preference of supporters to go round. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mikeyjavfc Posted May 14 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted May 14 Looks like there’s some new branding at the end of season awards tonight in the cursive style of the AV150 ‘mark’. I can see a ‘Villans’ and ‘Villa Park’ mark I haven’t seen before. Wonder if these will be used on other branding and products? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 24 minutes ago, mikeyjavfc said: Looks like there’s some new branding at the end of season awards tonight in the cursive style of the AV150 ‘mark’. I can see a ‘Villans’ and ‘Villa Park’ mark I haven’t seen before. Wonder if these will be used on other branding and products? It's interesting, I'm feeling a little nostalgia with the design of these new brandings. Must admit I'm liking it so far, I love the new designs on the brickwork at Villa Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Adidas kit and Champions League. The shirts are going to be selling fantastically well now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoDeMings Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: It's interesting, I'm feeling a little nostalgia with the design of these new brandings. Must admit I'm liking it so far, I love the new designs on the brickwork at Villa Park. I'm liking it. The AV150 mark's not perfect, but I got that nostalgia feeling with it too. Also reminded me of Cadbury's. Things are going in a really good direction imo, especially considering the pessimism surrounding Heck early on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I don't like the upcoming badge Do we know officially what the new crest/badge will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 14 Moderator Share Posted May 14 14 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: Do we know officially what the new crest/badge will be? I think we can pretty safely assume it'll be a combination of the two versions that the club have copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 On 12/05/2024 at 23:06, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I keep asking this and no one ever answers I've seen mention of a sleeve sponsor... Who is our new sleeve sponsor? Is it known? Or is it just that value of existing one ( Trade Nation ) has been doubled? Tanswell says: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5476579/2024/05/14/aston-villa-champions-league-finances/ Quote The same is true with existing shirt sleeve sponsor Trade Nation, with Villa using its better position to negotiate a more lucrative agreement for next season. So looks like Trade Nation are here to stay on a larger deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 11 hours ago, DaoDeMings said: I'm liking it. The AV150 mark's not perfect, but I got that nostalgia feeling with it too. Also reminded me of Cadbury's. Things are going in a really good direction imo, especially considering the pessimism surrounding Heck early on Agreed, the AV150 is a little off but it's a good idea. @DaoDeMings great username 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 15 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: But again to go back to my original moan - one of the things that the process over the last few years has taught me is that I'm no great judge of a badges aesthetic, but also that the aesthetic isn't actually the key, it's the association that matters and that's where constant change becomes so harmful. I don't like the upcoming badge, from a personal taste point of view I find it a bit garish and it reminds me of the 2010's - like Paul Lambert in an Hawaiian shirt - but if we were to keep it for thirty years, and even more than that, if we were to have some success over that period, to become what we might become, then in ten years time that idea of what it looks like won't matter, it'd be 'us' and 'us' would be something I'd be proud of. Longevity breeds affection, it fosters pride, there's a comfort in permanence in Villa always being Villa no matter how (subjectively) ugly the badge might be to others. It becomes something special over time - it gains value through that familiarity - it's why we hanker after old brands, why we love that British Rail symbol and Opal Fruits - by putting in place designs that are (subjectively) poor, then getting rid of them as soon as they start to stick, we end up in a spiral of meh - like some sort of footballing Zsa Zsa Gabor, lost in the idea of another big wedding. I prefer the badge on the shirts this season, I don't like this badge - but I'd like us to keep it for thirty years so that I can learn to. How long are we talking? Only we've been evolving the same crest (apart from on the shirts this season) for about 22 years, that's when we first had the shield with a yellow lion, it's evolved and changed to keep up with the times but the basic principle has been the same, and I'm not seeing all that much affection for it. Even you have stated you wanted a full rebrand away from it. That kind of makes my point, sticking with something for 30 years is great if it's a genuinely good design because good design will stand the test of time, but poor design will not, it will not last for 30 years and so you just end up changing it again and again. The below article has a nice little section explaining the basic differences between a rebrand and a brand evolution. https://madebrave.com/blog/rebrand-vs-brand-evolution-which-is-better-for-your-brand/ Quote What are the pros of a rebrand? A rebrand is a clear signal that your business and/or product has changed With a rebrand, you can set yourself apart from your competitors, if the industry is starting to look same-y A rebrand can make your business feel more current if it hasn’t been updated in a while You can re-engage your current audience or connect with a completely new one What are the pros of brand evolution? With brand evolution, you can stay current on an ongoing basis Your brand can be reactive to design trends and the wants of your customers Brand evolution helps to keep your current audience and communities engaged With a company-wide focus on brand evolution, it builds a culture around continuous improvement Your brand is still recognisable through evolution, and you can keep the value of your brand equity—it’s easy to lose some of this during a rebrand if you’re not careful! Now I agree that a full rebrand, at this time, with the sudden upsurge in performance and interest, is probably the better path for us to take. However, the roundel is not the answer in my opinion. It doesn't set us apart, it doesn't feel particularly current and its main, almost sole focus, is on current fans and not new. I know you don't think there's much in the similarity of the Chelsea crest, but I really disagree with this, if we want to set ourselves apart using the same shape as half the league isn't the way to do it, using the same shape, with the same creature, looking in the same direction of one of the bigger brands of our competitors, is not setting ourselves apart. Not helped by the odd way we decided to have our monotone version the same as theirs. Chelsea, like it or not is a massive brand globally, they've had big global sponsors, big global star footballers from loads of different countries, they've won the European Cup twice in the last 12 years, the Premier League multiple times, their name and branding has been seen everywhere across the globe seen by likely billions of people, most of which don't pay that much close attention, looking like them easily confuses the two and loses us the exposure that we are desperately trying to gain globally to catch up. I liked the positive press we got from the roundel consultation, I liked that we talked to different groups and all of that, but I felt from the very start that it was leading in a certain direction, and the fact there was no wiggle room on the direction of the lion kind of supports that theory. They knew roughly what they wanted from the beginning and found a way to get there and keep the fans happy through the consultation. I can't tell you why we've decided to go for an evolution rather than a rebrand, I think Heck has come in with his global branding experience and said that the roundel was a bad idea because of roughly the reasons mentioned above, and that our current crest was more 'individual' than the roundel, and maybe a few other reasons, but obviously, the genie was already out of the bottle, fans had already been consulted and promised a rebrand, and so something had to change, and they've taken the parts of the consultation they can use in an evolution and ignored the parts they can't, and really nobody is happy with the end result, but because it's an evolution, it is not the end result. I think like Purslow he probably roughly knows what he wants at the end of his part of the evolution, but it's going to happen in stages rather than in one go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 hours ago, Teale's 'tache said: How long are we talking? Only we've been evolving the same crest (apart from on the shirts this season) for about 22 years, that's when we first had the shield with a yellow lion, it's evolved and changed to keep up with the times but the basic principle has been the same, and I'm not seeing all that much affection for it. Even you have stated you wanted a full rebrand away from it. That kind of makes my point, sticking with something for 30 years is great if it's a genuinely good design because good design will stand the test of time, but poor design will not, it will not last for 30 years and so you just end up changing it again and again. The below article has a nice little section explaining the basic differences between a rebrand and a brand evolution. https://madebrave.com/blog/rebrand-vs-brand-evolution-which-is-better-for-your-brand/ Now I agree that a full rebrand, at this time, with the sudden upsurge in performance and interest, is probably the better path for us to take. However, the roundel is not the answer in my opinion. It doesn't set us apart, it doesn't feel particularly current and its main, almost sole focus, is on current fans and not new. I know you don't think there's much in the similarity of the Chelsea crest, but I really disagree with this, if we want to set ourselves apart using the same shape as half the league isn't the way to do it, using the same shape, with the same creature, looking in the same direction of one of the bigger brands of our competitors, is not setting ourselves apart. Not helped by the odd way we decided to have our monotone version the same as theirs. Chelsea, like it or not is a massive brand globally, they've had big global sponsors, big global star footballers from loads of different countries, they've won the European Cup twice in the last 12 years, the Premier League multiple times, their name and branding has been seen everywhere across the globe seen by likely billions of people, most of which don't pay that much close attention, looking like them easily confuses the two and loses us the exposure that we are desperately trying to gain globally to catch up. I liked the positive press we got from the roundel consultation, I liked that we talked to different groups and all of that, but I felt from the very start that it was leading in a certain direction, and the fact there was no wiggle room on the direction of the lion kind of supports that theory. They knew roughly what they wanted from the beginning and found a way to get there and keep the fans happy through the consultation. I can't tell you why we've decided to go for an evolution rather than a rebrand, I think Heck has come in with his global branding experience and said that the roundel was a bad idea because of roughly the reasons mentioned above, and that our current crest was more 'individual' than the roundel, and maybe a few other reasons, but obviously, the genie was already out of the bottle, fans had already been consulted and promised a rebrand, and so something had to change, and they've taken the parts of the consultation they can use in an evolution and ignored the parts they can't, and really nobody is happy with the end result, but because it's an evolution, it is not the end result. I think like Purslow he probably roughly knows what he wants at the end of his part of the evolution, but it's going to happen in stages rather than in one go. You can't park there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villan-scott Posted May 15 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted May 15 Love this 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaoDeMings Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 11 minutes ago, villan-scott said: Love this I know people are sceptical about the shades of blue we're using etc, but the colours in this are bang on imo. Very exciting. Surely we get a pair of Gazelles/Sambas? I'll have to be dipping into the savings if it happens 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) Grabbed and cut this from a Monchi post on IG ... Edited May 15 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 I would have thought Monchi's earned the right to be given more than a company potato for filming purposes. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 5 minutes ago, GarethRDR said: I would have thought Monchi's earned the right to be given more than a company potato for filming purposes. It's a much larger photo. I just spotted the screen and zoomed ALL the way in and cut a few times lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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