Pau Torres

[villa4europe]

6 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Ballplaying CBs often look terrible when they first make a move like this. I’m really not worried.

That Liverpool attack is world class, and very, very quick. How often will he be facing that kind of onslaught?

Not just that but I thought when they closed him down the lines and angles they took were really intelligent, the mistake for the corner Nunez takes the perfect angle to cut out the pass to Digne which was the only pass he had on

That was a larger problem Sunday, we were so lethargic we went back to trying to play out from the back with players who had 1 pass on, vs poorer teams and us playing better when he has 3 or 4 options he'll be fine

[beasley14]

As vulnerable as Pau looked the single biggest weakness of a high defensive line is a poor press.  Not sure if it was playing Thursday or a problem with us not turning up but that's two away games against good opposition where we haven't matched them physically in midfield.  Against the lesser teams we will play around them as Burnley but we need to match the top teams physically in CM.  Last season we dominated Liverpool for most of the game.  

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 hours ago, beasley14 said:

As vulnerable as Pau looked the single biggest weakness of a high defensive line is a poor press.  Not sure if it was playing Thursday or a problem with us not turning up but that's two away games against good opposition where we haven't matched them physically in midfield.  Against the lesser teams we will play around them as Burnley but we need to match the top teams physically in CM.  Last season we dominated Liverpool for most of the game.  

First half yes. Second half we had to dig deep as they were all over us. That’s when Mings came in to his own.  He is such a massive loss. It’s our equivalence of when Liverpool lost VVD for a year. 
 

We really need Pau to get up to speed with this league and fast.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Vive_La_Villa

[ChicagoVillan1983]

Pau shouldn't have been playing big minutes yet - unfortunately he's right in the thick of things.

[Oaks]

2 hours ago, ChicagoVillan1983 said:

Pau shouldn't have been playing big minutes yet - unfortunately he's right in the thick of things.

I think this is what the biggest issue is. I think he would have played the Everton/Burnley games but i think it would have been Mings and Konsa vs Newcastle and Liverpool.  Weve seen the good and the bad, we are probably going to have to live with it for a few months unfortunately. 

[Paul33]

Lenglet is no mug and is Premier hardened so Konsa and Lenglet should be our default CB partnership for any game against the likely top ten sides.

 

[eholm]

Pau's ability on the ball is superb. My concern is that we are all hoping that he will adapt and improve from a defensive perspective. The main attributes we need him to improve on are physicality/strength and pace. I am not convinced any amount of training and work will actually produce tangible developments in either of those areas. 
 

I’m struggling to think of a PL defender who lacked both attributes but was able to develop them and become a top quality CB….unless anyone can correct me?

[KentVillan]

18 minutes ago, eholm said:

Pau's ability on the ball is superb. My concern is that we are all hoping that he will adapt and improve from a defensive perspective. The main attributes we need him to improve on are physicality/strength and pace. I am not convinced any amount of training and work will actually produce tangible developments in either of those areas. 
 

I’m struggling to think of a PL defender who lacked both attributes but was able to develop them and become a top quality CB….unless anyone can correct me?

I don't think he necessarily needs to become quicker. What he needs to adapt to is the pace of the game around him, and the pressing styles of the best sides in this league, which he probably hasn't encountered before.

Lots of elite CBs in the PL and other top leagues in Europe have been relatively slow. It obviously helps to have that lightning recovery pace, but it's not essential if the rest of their game is solid.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

40 minutes ago, eholm said:

Pau's ability on the ball is superb. My concern is that we are all hoping that he will adapt and improve from a defensive perspective. The main attributes we need him to improve on are physicality/strength and pace. I am not convinced any amount of training and work will actually produce tangible developments in either of those areas. 
 

I’m struggling to think of a PL defender who lacked both attributes but was able to develop them and become a top quality CB….unless anyone can correct me?

We all have these concerns.

However also have to take a step back.

The way we are talking it's as if in all of La Liga and Europe ( Champions League etc ) there aren't other strong and fast players .

He's been playing at the highest level against the best opposition for a while.

Physicality and " explosiveness " etc can defo be improved with training.

Just needs the right program.

Edited September 5, 2023 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[NeilS]

5 hours ago, ChicagoVillan1983 said:

Pau shouldn't have been playing big minutes yet - unfortunately he's right in the thick of things.

Exactly, the plan would have been to ease him in to the physicality of the PL. instead an awful injury has taken that opportunity away and it’s straight into the fire. 

[eholm]

17 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I don't think he necessarily needs to become quicker. What he needs to adapt to is the pace of the game around him, and the pressing styles of the best sides in this league, which he probably hasn't encountered before.

Lots of elite CBs in the PL and other top leagues in Europe have been relatively slow. It obviously helps to have that lightning recovery pace, but it's not essential if the rest of their game is solid.

Valid point re the pace issue.....i think its more the unfortunate combination of lack of pace with a lack of physicallity/agression. Hopefully adaptation to the overall pace of the PL will help him improve.

[eholm]

11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

We all have these concerns.

However also have to take a step back.

The way we are talking it's as if in all of La Liga and Europe ( Champions League etc ) there aren't other strong and fast players .

He's been playing at the highest level against the best opposition for a while.

Physicality and " explosiveness " etc can defoe be improved with training.

Just needs the right program.

Yeah will be very interesting to see how he develops physically.....but I guess as his adaptation to the pace of the PL continues, his imprved anticipation of ball and man will mean we wont need him to turn into Mings MKII.

[DJBOB]

I don't think he will develop that much physically - and I think the circumstances around the whole game (early goal, a fine tuned aggressive press with a revitalized Liverpool midfield, everyone not named Douglas Luiz seemingly falling apart) made a bad day worse.

It will take some time before this works out, particularly if Diego continues to be in and out. I think part of the reason for the Pau-Diego pairing was a similar language so a more coordinated partnership. Pau and Konsa, which I believe will be the pairing that will start the majority of games together, will need quite some time to gel and become cohesive enough as a pairing.

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

I don't think he necessarily needs to become quicker. What he needs to adapt to is the pace of the game around him, and the pressing styles of the best sides in this league, which he probably hasn't encountered before.

Lots of elite CBs in the PL and other top leagues in Europe have been relatively slow. It obviously helps to have that lightning recovery pace, but it's not essential if the rest of their game is solid.

yep he also needs to learn to get rid if needed, not all the them but sometimes a hoof is required like for the first goal

Liverpool inhaler fuelled press isnt how everybody plays and Burnley the week before were supposed be good at pressing and he played well. Home to Palace will be another game he will have lots of time on the ball

[KentVillan]

The other thing to remember is when you're new to a side, you just don't have the instinctive understanding of where everyone is going to be, you haven't developed that sixth sense for who is shouting for the ball behind you ... and in Pau's case, he probably doesn't even understand what his CB partner is saying to him.

Add all that together, and it means every decision takes a split second longer.

You don't have that luxury against a team like Liverpool.

I'm very sure he will improve with time, and won't be a dud signing. We just need to be patient. Emery's original plan was surely not to blood him like this, but injuries have forced it on us, so that's just bad luck tbh.

I think he'll continue to have the odd shocker against certain sides, but look very solid and dependable against most of the sides around and below us.

[Follyfoot]

The boy is quality and he will find his feet not quite as quickly as we would like, but he will do it. I’m confident

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

12 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

The other thing to remember is when you're new to a side, you just don't have the instinctive understanding of where everyone is going to be, you haven't developed that sixth sense for who is shouting for the ball behind you ... and in Pau's case, he probably doesn't even understand what his CB partner is saying to him.

Add all that together, and it means every decision takes a split second longer.

You don't have that luxury against a team like Liverpool.

I'm very sure he will improve with time, and won't be a dud signing. We just need to be patient. Emery's original plan was surely not to blood him like this, but injuries have forced it on us, so that's just bad luck tbh.

I think he'll continue to have the odd shocker against certain sides, but look very solid and dependable against most of the sides around and below us.

Indeed.

Let's think about how many years Mings and Konsa had together until they became a brilliant unit.

As a side note, it's actually incredible to think that they have come up with us all the way from the Championship, to the higher echelons of the PL.

[TRO]

23 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Pau needs a few months to get bedded in. He's very skillful. I'm rightly sceptical about oversimplifying comments suggesting as settled "law" that the PL is somehow too "physical" for a Spanish player. The reality in comparing the leagues in terms of overall physicality is much more complicated, and there are different kinds of intensity, according to the little research data we have. A lot of the reputational stuff is based on silly stereotypes, but of course, that doesn't mean some of it isn't true. I don't know. Pau needs time to learn the PL, too, and have his defense and midfield settled. It's been musical chairs for weeks now due to injuries. 

Not seen anyone, say that.....but....

This league can be too physical for any player, from any country, not willing to engage in that endeavour.....it means they will struggle to impose their own game.....ignore it at your peril.

The most talented players in this league, can deal with physical intimidation, they ride it out, and find a way to negate it.....probably Rodri is one of the best examples today to debunk that theory.....Costa in his Pomp and Aguero, shirked intimidation, with disdain.

Our own Jhon Duran seems to laugh in the face of physical contact and him from a spanish speaking country.

No its about approach.... you either embrace it ,shirk it, or avoid/hide from it.

 

[Marka Ragnos]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Not seen anyone, say that.....but....

This league can be too physical for any player, from any country, not willing to engage in that endeavour.....it means they will struggle to impose their own game.....ignore it at your peril.

The most talented players in this league, can deal with physical intimidation, they ride it out, and find a way to negate it.....probably Rodri is one of the best examples today to debunk that theory.....Costa in his Pomp and Aguero, shirked intimidation, with disdain.

Our own Jhon Duran seems to laugh in the face of physical contact and him from a spanish speaking country.

No its about approach.... you either embrace it ,shirk it, or avoid/hide from it.

 

Thanks, and I agree especially with your point about adapting requiring a conscious change in mindset.  No doubt true! My only big point was that the idea of the "physicality" of English football may often too simplistic and bound up with all kinds of bullshit, including cultural stereotypes. As you know, there are different aspects of "physicality," just as there are with sprinters versus marathon runners, etc. Not that you said this at all! But I'm not sure the Premier League is more "tough" than all other leagues, ie full of "hard men" with broken noses and ale in their veins. I do think some people like to think that, and someone like Pau Torres (a tall, beautiful man with a lanky build and dreamy eyes -- and SOOOOOOOO played up this way in the media, too) can get stick for not measuring up to these imagined, culturally inflected paradigms and anxieties about English masculinity, which are very, very, VERY old (see Edward I versus Edward II). Does that make sense?

Quote

Torres looks like he was born to the elite level — with his tall elegant frame, piercing blue eyes and rich technical gifts. And the last 18 months have brought almost dream-like progress — just three months after making his first Primera Division start he was scoring 59 seconds into his Spain debut, and he is now on the radar of every top European club looking for a centre-half.

Edward II may have been the Morrissey of the 14th century, and I reference -- as a footnote only -- merely as an old, interesting counter-example of English masculinity:

Quote

 

Edward had a normal upbringing for a member of a royal family.[28][d] He was interested in horses and horsebreeding, and became a good rider; he also liked dogs, in particular greyhounds.[30] In his letters, he shows a quirky sense of humour, joking about sending unsatisfactory animals to his friends, such as horses who disliked carrying their riders, or lazy hunting dogs too slow to catch rabbits.[31] He was not particularly interested in hunting or falconry, both popular activities in the 14th century.[32] He enjoyed music, including Welsh music and the newly invented crwth instrument, as well as musical organs.[33] He did not take part in jousting, either because he lacked the aptitude or because he had been banned from participating for his personal safety, but he was certainly supportive of the sport.[34]

Edward grew up to be tall and muscular, and was considered good-looking by the standards of the period.[35] He had a reputation as a competent public speaker and was known for his generosity to household staff.[36] Unusually, he enjoyed rowing, as well as hedging and ditching, and enjoyed associating with labourers and other lower-class workers.[37][38][e] This behaviour was not considered normal for the nobility of the period and attracted criticism from contemporaries.[39][38]

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

I'm confused.

Did a Google to find Torres vs. Lenglet pace ratings and this article from 2020 came up

He's either got top end pace hidden in his locker, just takes long to pick up, of maybe it's just " explosive acceleration" he doesn't have, or use?

The further information I've found suggests he obviously knows how to play the high line, and isn't necessarily a slouch.

Needs time I guess!

https://ronaldo.com/football-news/top-5-fastest-la-liga-players-this-season/2/#:~:text=Pau Torres – 34.93km%2Fh&text=Surprisingly%2C it's a centre-back,this list in Pau Torres.

" Top 5 fastest La Liga players this season

Surprisingly, it’s a centre-back who starts off this list in Pau Torres.

The 23-year-old has established himself in the Villarreal line-up after spending last season on loan at Malaga. He’s started in 23 of the club’s 27 games, adding a goal and assist to his tally.

Torres’ induction into the first-team coincides with Villarreal’s improved performances. The Yellow Submarine is up in ninth-place in La Liga, already just six points adrift from last season’s haul.

The 6 ft 3 in defender is also quick on his feet and has even caught the interest of Manchester City. "

Found this from 2021 as well

https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/player-analysis-pau-torres/

" Standing at 1.91 meters, Pau Torres has an athlete’s body. Tall players have the reputation to be slow, but this is not the case for him. Especially since Spain employ a high defensive line, having fast centre-backs is key to protect the spaces left behind, as seen below. "

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN