Youri Tielemans

[Jareth]

Really pleased with this - got to be one of our strongest signings relative to what we already have in that position - superb squad depth in the middle now. 

[tinker]

Watching that video and he's very similar in style to Doug, should be a good squad player for us but there are doubts over his attitude. Not sure what happened at Leicester but I'm guessing they turned down an offer for him and he threw his dummy in. Rumour was it was Arsenal so it was probably £10m, or pretty low.

I can't see him getting in our midfield as it stands and his willingness to sit on the bench may be tested, with a suspect attitude it's a risk. I think its worth taking but let's not kid ourselves that he's a model professional on what we can guess has happened. 

[HKP90]

12 minutes ago, StanBalaban said:

I think we shouldn't ignore the effect on YT of playing for a manager that has run out of ideas and, as a consequence, constantly being on the end of shit results. As fans, we only get to see the player's output on match day, but look how good footballers have suffered in that past.

Our team has been littered with examples: Veretout, Gueye, Ayew, McGinn, Konsa, Chester, Watkins, Coutinho have all shown prolonged periods without any notable form for various reasons. If we had sold McGinn under Gerrard, I don't think many would be congratulating the buying club's fans. Under Emery, he's one of the first names on the teamsheet.

Poor management, confidence issues, tactics, playing out of position, poor physical fitness, playing with a niggling injury, mentality, morale, family matters or a combination of a few thing, can make the difference between excelling and looking like a player has never kicked a ball in their life. Sometimes given our vantage point, it points us to the conclusions of downing tools, or simply that the player is shit.

As much information the Leicester fans think they have, they can only see Tielemans' match day output, and not necessarily the causation.

Don Unai will have a full dossier on every player he considers and, given he's the smartest footballing man we have at the football club, will go through every facet of a player's worth to him (and actually understand the data he has). That doesn't mean everything will work out 100% of the time,  but I don't think he would leave much to chance.

I agree with much of what you said, IF it relates to performance. None of those things, with the exception possibly of physical fitness excuse a lack of effort, though. 

But as I say, Emery talked to him personally. I have no doubts he has done his homework, and whatever prep is required to check out his attitude.

[babyblue]

23 minutes ago, StanBalaban said:

I think we shouldn't ignore the effect on YT of playing for a manager that has run out of ideas and, as a consequence, constantly being on the end of shit results. As fans, we only get to see the player's output on match day, but look how good footballers have suffered in that past.

The counter point to that is that he was poor in his second season when we were playing well as a team and finished 5th.

His form was up and down here as I said, as it was elsewhere.

[markavfc40]

Where has this he has got a suspect attitude come from? all the evidence I can see suggests otherwise. He, along with pretty much the whole Leicester team, had a poor season last year but that doesn't equate to a poor attitude. I'd imagine if he had a poor attitude he wouldn't have been made captain from last October, in the absence of Johnny Evans, by Brendan Rodgers and that remained the case under Smith when Evans was out. He has also captained Belgium in the past. 

445 club appearances, 58 international caps (at times having captained both club and country) all by the age of 26 doesn't strike me as something a guy who has a suspect attitude would achieve.

Edited June 11, 2023 by markavfc40

[Adam2003]

2 hours ago, babyblue said:

They are really pi**ed off with Tielemans, as his attitude the last two years has caused issues. And part of that attitude issue was caused by him seeing out his contract for what he thought was going to be a massive move away.

 

Last year I hear, but the summer of 2022 I’m reading articles touting him as the best midfielder in the league and he won your Player of the Year Award - do you just mean his attitude of not signing a new deal?
 

Also he got his massive move away, he’s just joined a CL club a couple of years early

[HolteExile]

There's clearly quality there with Tielemans. 

But if we were looking to boost that area of the park, a player with a bit of edge might have suited us better. With Ash gone Emi is our only real shithouser now.

Guendouzi or similar are the sort of players that get under the skin of the opposition. And get the side firing if we are up against it.  Vibe I get with Tielemans is he's fine if we're on top and dominating possession but goes missing for the hard yards. 

We'll see. 

Lange et al have watched him for a while so must know what they're getting. And how it fits with the overall plan. 

 

[Adam2003]

28 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

one thing about this signing, if you look at both Tielemans and Buendia, they both love a through ball, so we need to buy a couple of players who really feed off a line breaking through ball.

 

You thinking Scott Hogan?

[babyblue]

9 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Last year I hear, but the summer of 2022 I’m reading articles touting him as the best midfielder in the league and he won your Player of the Year Award - do you just mean his attitude of not signing a new deal?
 

Also he got his massive move away, he’s just joined a CL club a couple of years early

That was the year before, Maddison was player of the season last year and this year…. Well I couldn’t even tell you if we had the award.

As I said a few times it went:

Brilliant during last loan.

Poor season by loan standards.

Brilliant season (Player of season year).

Poor season by previous standards.

Poor season by previous standards.

 

[tomsky_11]

How much is his change in perceived performance at Leicester down to tactical changes impacting him and his role? And the performance of the rest of the team?

There's a pretty noticable difference in his areas of operation at Leicester between his earlier and later seasons. Far more touches and tackles in the defensive and middle 3rds in the last two seasons, far more in the attacking 3rd in the seasons before that. Alongside this, other indicators of a switch to a less attacking, more defensive role - in the last two seasons, far more shots blocked, more tackles (and noticably better success in them), fewer progressive passes received (but more possession), fewer miscontrols and being dispossessed, more fouls, but also less fouled himself despite more possession, improved short and medium range passing but worse long range, fewer shots and on average further from goal, with npxG per shot halved from his first to last season.

Even seeming to play this deeper role, he's still been putting up decent shot creation numbers and getting the ball into dangerous areas through passing far more often than any of our current midfield. And his assist numbers dropped off far more at Leicester than the volume and quality of his chance creation did, so is this impacted more by the players he had around him?

It seems to me like he'll come into our side most likely in the current McGinn role on the advanced right side of our midfield 4, and therefore operate in areas more like I suspect he was utilised early on at Leicester, in a team performing towards the higher end of the table. If indeed his ability in possession and as a goal threat hasn't changed and we can utilise him higher up the field, I don't see why we can't get goal and assist numbers from him similar to his most productive periods at Leicester.

To potential add that to our squad while saving potenitally £5-10M a season on paying a fee for an equivalent player is great business for us.

[MaVilla]

13 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

You thinking Scott Hogan?

[tomsky_11]

13 minutes ago, HolteExile said:

Guendouzi or similar are the sort of players that get under the skin of the opposition. And get the side firing if we are up against it.  Vibe I get with Tielemans is he's fine if we're on top and dominating possession but goes missing for the hard yards.

We still have McGinn. I don't see Tielemans shutting him out completely. Not after his performances under Emery.

Kamara has the more defensive pivot role nailed down, and I'd suspect Luiz to play the majority of the other pivot role. But both McGinn and Tielemans are capable of playing either in the pivot or more advanced, and I think both will get plenty of game time either rotating in-game or between games depending on the opposition, the state of the game and/or our intended approach to it.

Tielemans' defensive stats look fine anyway, he looks generally ahead of both McGinn and Ramsey based on last season. He absolutely doesn't look incapable of putting himself about. And even if it were the case he went missing occasionally on the defensive end, I'd suspect with both Luiz and Kamara behind him there's plenty of cover and his qualities in possession should more than make up for any negatives.

[Tom13]

14 minutes ago, babyblue said:

That was the year before, Maddison was player of the season last year and this year…. Well I couldn’t even tell you if we had the award.

As I said a few times it went:

Brilliant during last loan.

Poor season by loan standards.

Brilliant season (Player of season year).

Poor season by previous standards.

Poor season by previous standards.

Is this about Tielemans? He only had one loan there before going perm didn't he? So how was he brilliant and poor?

[Digavilla]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

If that were the case, every player would run down their contract or sign shorter ones. They get a signing on bonus, but unless it's like Haaland or someone it won't be in the double figures.

Watch a recent video of man city director football discussing this precise issue of players running down contract to get better pay & sign on fees from new club due to there’s no transfer fee paid to old club, he made a good point that’s it’s also a gamble for the player too , as he’s hasn’t a any contract line up & if he gets a serious injury like ACL in his last season, he gets nothing at all , all to lose.

Probably that’s reason lots of players take it easy in last season to avoid serious injury. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, babyblue said:

Look there are a few things going on here, and not a lot of it has to do with Villa.

People are massively pi**ed off about relegation, it shouldn’t have even been on the cards let alone happen.

They are really pi**ed off with Tielemans, as his attitude the last two years has caused issues. And part of that attitude issue was caused by him seeing out his contract for what he thought was going to be a massive move away.

So for all those problems we’ve had stem from him, not just performances, also how it looks to other players etc to have someone clearly running a contract down… he’s moved to a team who finished lower than we were when we first started offering him massive new deals to sign. 

The frustration is, if you’d signed your contract two years ago and been committed, we could still potentially (maybe unlikely) be having high finishes! There was more at play than him, I’m just trying to explain peoples frustration.

In terms of Tielemans, and I’m not trying to be disrespectful here. The reason he’s ended up with you reflects on how far his performances have dropped off in the last two years. At his height for us he was getting concrete interest from clubs on the next step up the ladder. 

The only frustration aimed at Villa is that he’s taken a backwards step from where we were (not now) when we first offered him contracts! So people are thinking… all that for what!?

Those slating him aren’t wrong, he’s been poor. He really has, it’s not bitterness. BUT…  he had 18 months (his first loan season and then his second full season) where he was genuinely brilliant. 

You know when you just see a player who is on another level. They see things in a way nobody else does on the pitch and it’s just obvious. He was like that!

Nobody really knows what you’ll get. What I would say is that he’s not put any consistency together in terms of several years in his entire career. Monaco fans slated him before he joined us, and I kind of get it now. So even if he’s world class for 6 months, I’d see how it pans out long term.

Realistically, on a free you can’t go wrong really. At worst you’ve got a decent squad player for nothing. 

And thats the essence of the whole scenario.....what he has done with Leicester, is in a different team to us, and subsequently he was subjected to their ills.

We took a chance on Emi Martinez, and look at how that turned out......players respond to their surroundings, some more than others....some get motivated by a move away.

We as Villa fans don't know, which Youri Tielemans we will get, but he is 26 and potentially in his prime, on a free transfer......what is there not to like from our point of view.

I understand the disappointment the Leicester fans feel, after relegation, but it wasn't a last minute thing, it was coming.......but my advice is not to blame other clubs for doing their job, for their clubs......Blame your club for not doing their job, for you.

Ps If Youri plays poor, he won't get in the team, its not complicated.

Edited June 11, 2023 by TRO

[PaulC]

28 minutes ago, babyblue said:

That was the year before, Maddison was player of the season last year and this year…. Well I couldn’t even tell you if we had the award.

As I said a few times it went:

Brilliant during last loan.

Poor season by loan standards.

Brilliant season (Player of season year).

Poor season by previous standards.

Poor season by previous standards.

 

I have faith that Emery will make him consistently good. We have good choices in midfield, hes going to have to be consistently very good to get in the team.

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

Watching that video and he's very similar in style to Doug, should be a good squad player for us but there are doubts over his attitude. Not sure what happened at Leicester but I'm guessing they turned down an offer for him and he threw his dummy in. Rumour was it was Arsenal so it was probably £10m, or pretty low.

I can't see him getting in our midfield as it stands and his willingness to sit on the bench may be tested, with a suspect attitude it's a risk. I think its worth taking but let's not kid ourselves that he's a model professional on what we can guess has happened. 

I don’t know you only have to look back on how the majority of VT viewed Mcginn durning Gerrard’s run. Things got stale at Leicester recruitment went down hill and the whole team suffered.

[Liono]

there's a good player in there, and we're likely to have 10-12 extra games next season - this is a no-brainer 

[Liono]

of course Leicester fans are saying he's shit - they jsut got relegated, and only Maddison gave a ****. Tielemens won't have to worry about a relegation battle next season, but he will have to be good to get a game.

 

[FLVillan]

1 hour ago, MaVilla said:

one thing about this signing, if you look at both Tielemans and Buendia, they both love a through ball, so we need to buy a couple of players who really feed off a line breaking through ball.

 

Scott Hogan and Danny Ings...   I'll see myself out...