Moussa Dembélé

[CVByrne]

Dembele gives us something we've lacked, he scores with his head and is a big player, Duran is a big player. Watkins, Dembele, Bailey, Duran all are quick players, all carry the ball forward so a dynamic group. Bailey off the right with Moreno at LB etc.. there's a different profile at the club, pace. JJ carries the ball forward as does McGinn.

[DaveAV1]

15 hours ago, striker said:

Yup and I’ll only be looking for a weekly supply of toffees to sign a contract.

Let us chew that one over for a while. 

[Rolta]

6 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Dembele gives us something we've lacked, he scores with his head and is a big player, Duran is a big player. Watkins, Dembele, Bailey, Duran all are quick players, all carry the ball forward so a dynamic group. Bailey off the right with Moreno at LB etc.. there's a different profile at the club, pace. JJ carries the ball forward as does McGinn.

All sounds good to me!

[CVByrne]

Emery (and De Zerbi too) know how to set up a team to win. Especially teams who press high leave space behind as they play a high line. Emery in particular wants to play a risky game in triggering the opposition press and then moving the ball to where the opposition press wants you which is over to the left or right touchline so they box you in. Then if we beat the press from there by getting it to one of our central midfielders or a player to carry forward we have space and a quick team to exploit it. We created so many chances against Liverpool this way, we beat Spurs and Leeds like this. 

So seeing Emery get pace into the team makes a lot of sense. Defence so we have the right press resistant players which skill to beat the press is also key.

Edited January 21, 2023 by CVByrne

[Rich192]

Can those who think it's a poor signing explain why? I'm genuinely confused. Vast majority of us haven't seen much of him, so all we can really go by is Fbref and WhoScored.

At his time at Lyon, in Ligue 1, he's had an xG of 56.2, and scored 55. That doesn't seem too bad? Ings' xG for us was 12.9 and he scored 13, so we're not talking about a huge difference. Ings has only scored more than 12 goals in a top flight once in his career, and is 31 in the summer, where as Dembele has managed it three times, and is 27 in the summer.

Dembele's average rating for Lyon in Ligue 1 over the five seasons is 6.89 for all appearances, and 7.09 for just those games he started in. By contrast, Ings' average rating for us is 6.61 in the Premier League in all appearances, and 6.82 in just starts. Sure, Dembele was playing for a better team in a worse league, but those two variables aren't big enough to explain such a big discrepancy? It also matches the eye test, when Ings didn't score or contribute, quite a few times it was as if we were playing with a man down.

I really don't get the apathy, or even disappointment of this transfer? Of course it could happen, and it doesn't work out, but if that's the case it'll be a far cheaper mistake than Ings' move, or even Wesley, heaven forbid. 

I'm 100% on board with this potential move, I think he's just what we need as a different option up front, and think he'll be a far better player up top than Watkins is.

[CVByrne]

3 minutes ago, Rich192 said:

Can those who think it's a poor signing explain why? I'm genuinely confused. Vast majority of us haven't seen much of him, so all we can really go by is Fbref and WhoScored.

At his time at Lyon, in Ligue 1, he's had an xG of 56.2, and scored 55. That doesn't seem too bad? Ings' xG for us was 12.9 and he scored 13, so we're not talking about a huge difference. Ings has only scored more than 12 goals in a top flight once in his career, and is 31 in the summer, where as Dembele has managed it three times, and is 27 in the summer.

Dembele's average rating for Lyon in Ligue 1 over the five seasons is 6.89 for all appearances, and 7.09 for just those games he started in. By contrast, Ings' average rating for us is 6.61 in the Premier League in all appearances, and 6.82 in just starts. Sure, Dembele was playing for a better team in a worse league, but those two variables aren't big enough to explain such a big discrepancy? It also matches the eye test, when Ings didn't score or contribute, quite a few times it was as if we were playing with a man down.

I really don't get the apathy, or even disappointment of this transfer? Of course it could happen, and it doesn't work out, but if that's the case it'll be a far cheaper mistake than Ings' move, or even Wesley, heaven forbid. 

I'm 100% on board with this potential move, I think he's just what we need as a different option up front, and think he'll be a far better player up top than Watkins is.

I agree if we can sign him, I think it will be a very good one and I think he offers more in an Emery team than Ings would. His goal scoring record is also very good so I'd hopeful for double digit goals per season if he's a regular starter.

[gaz90]

40 minutes ago, Rich192 said:

Can those who think it's a poor signing explain why? I'm genuinely confused. Vast majority of us haven't seen much of him, so all we can really go by is Fbref and WhoScored.

At his time at Lyon, in Ligue 1, he's had an xG of 56.2, and scored 55. That doesn't seem too bad? Ings' xG for us was 12.9 and he scored 13, so we're not talking about a huge difference. Ings has only scored more than 12 goals in a top flight once in his career, and is 31 in the summer, where as Dembele has managed it three times, and is 27 in the summer.

Dembele's average rating for Lyon in Ligue 1 over the five seasons is 6.89 for all appearances, and 7.09 for just those games he started in. By contrast, Ings' average rating for us is 6.61 in the Premier League in all appearances, and 6.82 in just starts. Sure, Dembele was playing for a better team in a worse league, but those two variables aren't big enough to explain such a big discrepancy? It also matches the eye test, when Ings didn't score or contribute, quite a few times it was as if we were playing with a man down.

I really don't get the apathy, or even disappointment of this transfer? Of course it could happen, and it doesn't work out, but if that's the case it'll be a far cheaper mistake than Ings' move, or even Wesley, heaven forbid. 

I'm 100% on board with this potential move, I think he's just what we need as a different option up front, and think he'll be a far better player up top than Watkins is.

To be clear - I'd quite like him from the highlights that I've seen, especially for the cost touted, but it's not all rosy from what I've read. 

Lyon fans (who typically don't just watch the highlights) deem him average. Apparently his hold-up play isn't great, he doesn't work the defenders, he's lazy and almost never seems to win 50/50 balls. In that sense, he's different to Ollie, which is what Emery's after, but according to them he also missed a load of big chances last year as well and I think 5 of his goals were penalties. He looks to be a bit of a stat padder as well, mainly scoring against weaker teams (with the odd exception like against Man City).

As I say, I think he'd be a great signing for the £3m speculated and if we can keep wages below six figures p/w, especially if Emery wants him. I fully trust Emery over the Lyon fans, but I'd see him being brought in as an additional option, something different to Ollie, rather than as the complete package.

[DaveAV1]

50 minutes ago, Rich192 said:

Can those who think it's a poor signing explain why? I'm genuinely confused. Vast majority of us haven't seen much of him, so all we can really go by is Fbref and WhoScored.

At his time at Lyon, in Ligue 1, he's had an xG of 56.2, and scored 55. That doesn't seem too bad? Ings' xG for us was 12.9 and he scored 13, so we're not talking about a huge difference. Ings has only scored more than 12 goals in a top flight once in his career, and is 31 in the summer, where as Dembele has managed it three times, and is 27 in the summer.

Dembele's average rating for Lyon in Ligue 1 over the five seasons is 6.89 for all appearances, and 7.09 for just those games he started in. By contrast, Ings' average rating for us is 6.61 in the Premier League in all appearances, and 6.82 in just starts. Sure, Dembele was playing for a better team in a worse league, but those two variables aren't big enough to explain such a big discrepancy? It also matches the eye test, when Ings didn't score or contribute, quite a few times it was as if we were playing with a man down.

I really don't get the apathy, or even disappointment of this transfer? Of course it could happen, and it doesn't work out, but if that's the case it'll be a far cheaper mistake than Ings' move, or even Wesley, heaven forbid. 

I'm 100% on board with this potential move, I think he's just what we need as a different option up front, and think he'll be a far better player up top than Watkins is.

I think the problem is that he’s been heavily linked for the last few days and so it isn’t an exciting out of the blue link. His name is quite well known and whilst he isn’t having a bad season, it’s not as good as last season. The arrival of Lacazzett has probably taken a bit of shine off him from their fans point of view and maybe that has knocked his confidence a little too. His contract situation is good for us and not for them so the price is great. But probably not as sexy as slamming 50 big uns on the table.

I’m pretty sure that we were happy to part with Ings because we’re pretty confident of getting a replacement, which is probably him. All the ducks lined up and so we’re going for it. The excitement starts when Unai gets him back to his best on the pitch. He’s 26, more than 10 years younger than Ashley Young and could be our main striker for years.

I’m working myself up to excited. I’ll be aiming for a frenzy by the time we play Leicester. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by DaveAV1

[gwi1890]

Don’t get why people are worried about “doing it in a poorer league “ should we just sign talent from premier league  only? Dembele has a decent record in European competitions , 8 goals in 25 that would suggest he’s more than capable of reach in double figures in the premier league.

[HKP90]

4 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Don’t get why people are worried about “doing it in a poorer league “ should we just sign talent from premier league  only? Dembele has a decent record in European competitions , 8 goals in 25 that would suggest he’s more than capable of reach in double figures in the premier league.

We couldn't even if we wanted to. There is only a finite supply, and clubs hold on to their best players. 

[Laughable Chimp]

4 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Don’t get why people are worried about “doing it in a poorer league “ should we just sign talent from premier league  only? Dembele has a decent record in European competitions , 8 goals in 25 that would suggest he’s more than capable of reach in double figures in the premier league.

By my count its 8 goals in 36 actually. 1 goal every 300 minutes.

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Don’t get why people are worried about “doing it in a poorer league “ should we just sign talent from premier league  only? Dembele has a decent record in European competitions , 8 goals in 25 that would suggest he’s more than capable of reach in double figures in the premier league.

Not talking about Dembele.  I get the worry about transferring from a poorer league to the PL, there is so many cases of exception stats of players in poorer leagues not doing it when they come to the PL both in terms of the PL quality and different style to many other leagues.  More of those players fail in the PL than are a success.  Again I’m not talking about Dembele but just generally.

[sne]

The only reason the PL is a great league (is money) is all the foreign players and managers who are making a living in it. All those guys come from these farmers leagues that all are crap apparently.

Obviously there are loads of good English players too but look at any given team and the story is telling.

[gwi1890]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Not talking about Dembele.  I get the worry about transferring from a poorer league to the PL, there is so many cases of exception stats of players in poorer leagues not doing it when they come to the PL both in terms of the PL quality and different style to many other leagues.  More of those players fail in the PL than are a success.  Again I’m not talking about Dembele but just generally.

And yet all the best managers and players  we have in the premier league have come from poorer leagues

Edited January 21, 2023 by gwi1890

[one_ian_taylor]

Strikers are often very expensive,  and hit and miss. They are a big gamble in transfer terms. Haller, Joelinton's first couple of seasons, Wesley, and plenty of other from our past. 

At the price being bandied around,  this is a striker with decent experience and room to improve,  who will cost 5 or 6 times less than the teenager we just bought.  He'll cost less than what we paid for Savo nearly 30 years ago. He might be a useful stop gap... or go on to be a club legend. Seems a relatively low risk one to me.

[Steero113]

10 hours ago, AshVilla said:

So looking at Dembele's stats in his "good" season.

He did score 21 goals but he was also supplied with 40+ chances finishing most from inside the box.

Do people really think he's going to come here and get that level of service also in a higher standard of league?

I think he will struggle to hit double figures.

 

With that logic applied, no striker in world football would hit double figures. 

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

And yet all the best managers and players  we have in the premier league have come from poorer leagues

I agree but how many failures/underperformers have come through the league to offset them…far more.  It’s getting the right players and a bit of luck because the failures have far outweighed successes.

Edited January 21, 2023 by nick76

[Tayls]

Did anyone see the West Ham stat the other day? Since they were taken over by GSB they have purchased 52 strikers (Ings being their 53rd). 

…22 of those 53 have never scored a goal for them. 

A lot of risk being taken there! 

[Xela]

46 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Don’t get why people are worried about “doing it in a poorer league “ should we just sign talent from premier league  only? Dembele has a decent record in European competitions , 8 goals in 25 that would suggest he’s more than capable of reach in double figures in the premier league.

Exactly. Chelsea have spunked £100m or on players this week who have only played in the Ukranian and Dutch leagues. 

Talent is talent. 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Xela said:

Exactly. Chelsea have spunked £100m or on players this week who have only played in the Ukranian and Dutch leagues. 

Talent is talent. 

Chelsea is probably not the best example given their history of both foreign successes and failures.