VillaTalk Deadpool 2023

[Jon]

I mean, where the **** would this country (or any country) be without art, writing, poetry, and social commentary? 

Fundamentally important. 

[chips'ngravy]

13 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

sad news that he's' died of course  and  I know I'm an ignoramus  , but legendary writer and poet ??  

other than some Villa promo thing that he did , what am I missing .. and please don't say poetry cause that's  below country music and wine on things that nobody should ever give a crap about 

 

Why bother commenting if by your own admission you're completely ingnorant?

[sidcow]

23 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

sad news that he's' died of course  and  I know I'm an ignoramus  , but legendary writer and poet ??  

other than some Villa promo thing that he did , what am I missing .. and please don't say poetry cause that's  below country music and wine on things that nobody should ever give a crap about 

 

Wow.  Well he was considered important enough to earn himself a mention on the 30 second Commercial Radio news bulletin today so I guess he was considered a very important writer and poet indeed.

The Black Writers Guild described him as " a titan of British literature".

But year, he's pretty pointless as he didn't write Harry Potter.

Edited December 7, 2023 by sidcow

[tonyh29]

14 minutes ago, Jon said:

Poetry is important Tone Loc. 'Art' is important.  Social commentary is important.  He was big in all of these areas.  

TBH I didn't the know he was a villa fan when I heard his passing today. Just gutted that he'd gone.  I know him mostly through things like the beeb. He's had occasional coverage on 6 music which is maybe where I know him from best.

Big loss IMO.

Art , Social commentary , yeah that's important 

poetry ,  well yes I suppose if you take the Morrison approach and call yourself a poet  and put it to music ,  then maybe  , but , when was the last time you went and got a book of poems and though , I'll just read these  in the back garden whilst enjoying the sunshine  ?

but my question really was around the use of  legendary writer and poet ... how many people will have read a piece of his work ? 

[Seat68]

He inspired a generation of young men and women to perform socially conscious poetry, he brought poetry to a wider audience, he made it cool and showed that it wasn't all Pam Ayres. He lent his voice to numerous charities and organisations seeing to make the lives of the young, the disadvantaged and the homeless, better. He sponsored a girls football team, when no one else would. I could go on, but if you don't see it, you dont see it.

This is my favourite poem by him.

What If (2009)

If you can keep your money when governments about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust your neighbour when they trust not you
And they be very nosy too;
If you can await the warm delights of summer
Then summer comes and goes with sun not seen,
And pay so much for drinking water
Knowing that the water is unclean.

If you seek peace in times of war creation,
And you can see that oil merchants are to blame,
If you can meet a pimp or politician,
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you cannot bear dis-united nations
And you think this new world order is a trick,
If you've ever tried to build good race relations,
And watch bad policing mess your work up quick.

If you can make one heap of all your savings
And risk buying a small house and plot,
Then sit back and watch the economy inflating
Then have to deal with the negative equity you've got;
If you can force your mind and body to continue
When all the social services have gone,
If you struggle on when there is nothing in you,
Except the knowledge that justice can be wrong.

If you can speak the truth to common people
Or walk with Kings and Queens and live no lie,
If you can see how power can be evil
And know that every censor is a spy;
If you can fill an unforgiving lifetime
With years of working hard to make ends meet,
You may not be wealthy but I am sure you will find
That you can hold your head high as you walk the streets.

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

... how many people will have read a piece of his work ? 

I mean, it's an impossible thing to put a number on but as he went on tours all over the world and appeared at all sorts of festivals and published children's books.  I would say several millions of people.  I know I have.   Check out his website and you will get an appreciation of how well known he is worldwide.

Guy couldn't read or write when he left school.  Needs some respect.

[tonyh29]

5 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Wow.  Well he was considered important enough to earn himself a mention on the 30 second Commercial Radio news bulletin today so I guess he was considered a very important writer and poet indeed.

The Black Writers Guild described him as " a titan of British literature".

But year, he's pretty pointless as he didn't write Harry Potter.

slag off Paul McCartney and everyone is amused , jovial and no harm done  .. ask a question about someone who I genuinely believe 90 -95 % of the population will never have heard of any of his work ..and VT starts barring its teeth and getting upset  

to take your example though i suspect that 90 % of people on the planet have heard of Harry Potter / JK Rowling  .. so you could say she is a legendary writer ... I don't think Zephaniah is in that same bracket .. you can argue he SHOULD be in that bracket , but nobody has made that argument on here  ...yet 

[Designer1]

2 hours ago, sidcow said:

As posted elsewhere by @The_Steve, Benjamin Zephaniah has died.

That's a tough one,  What a Legend.  Diagnosed with a brain tumour just 8 weeks ago 

Ah bollocks thats a bad one.

Lovely guy and quite the icon. 

R.I.P 

[El Zen]

Weird hill to die on, @tonyh29

Edited December 7, 2023 by El Zen

[Seat68]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

slag off Paul McCartney and everyone is amused , jovial and no harm done  .. ask a question about someone who I genuinely believe 90 -95 % of the population will never have heard of any of his work ..and VT starts barring its teeth and getting upset  

to take your example though i suspect that 90 % of people on the planet have heard of Harry Potter / JK Rowling  .. so you could say she is a legendary writer ... I don't think Zephaniah is in that same bracket .. you can argue he SHOULD be in that bracket , but nobody has made that argument on here  ...yet 

I wonder, genuinely, if we love him more here in the West Midlands, and maybe broader, he was that rasta poet out of Peaky Blinders.

[sidcow]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

slag off Paul McCartney and everyone is amused , jovial and no harm done  .. ask a question about someone who I genuinely believe 90 -95 % of the population will never have heard of any of his work ..and VT starts barring its teeth and getting upset  

to take your example though i suspect that 90 % of people on the planet have heard of Harry Potter / JK Rowling  .. so you could say she is a legendary writer ... I don't think Zephaniah is in that same bracket .. you can argue he SHOULD be in that bracket , but nobody has made that argument on here  ...yet 

I'm pretty sure if Bicks came on here a few hours after Paul McCartney died and started slagging him off, he'd get a bit if a pasting.

Actually I predict that when Paul McCartney dies and Bicks comes on here slating him he will get a bit of a pasting.

[tonyh29]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I'm pretty sure if Bicks came on here a few hours after Paul McCartney died and started slagging him off, he'd get a bit if a pasting.

Actually I predict that when Paul McCartney dies and Bicks comes on here slating him he will get a bit of a pasting.

tbf , I hardly slagged him off , more commented on the legendary status , 

Guess I should look back to when thatcher died and see everyone’s kind words though …

 

[tonyh29]

18 minutes ago, El Zen said:

Weird hill to die on, @tonyh29

Nobody is dying on any hill 

tbh , a thread where people earn points for deaths to rise up a league table is hardly the place for anyone to start trying to be precious or take any form of moral high ground 

but you knew that already …

[sidcow]

5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Nobody is dying on any hill 

tbh , a thread where people earn points for deaths to rise up a league table is hardly the place for anyone to start trying to be precious or take any form of moral high ground 

but you knew that already …

It may have just been better and more sensitive to go into the Things you Don't Get thread and post "Literature". 

[markavfc40]

22 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

tbf , I hardly slagged him off , more commented on the legendary status , 

Guess I should look back to when thatcher died and see everyone’s kind words though …

 

In fairness mate I am not really seeing the passing of a known evil, divisive bitch like Thatcher, who by her actions devastated/ruined the lives of millions of people, as a meaningful comparison as to the reaction to the death of someone who, from the many times I saw him on tele/listened to him speak, seemed to be a beacon for good. 

[tonyh29]

15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

In fairness mate I am not really seeing the passing of a known evil, divisive bitch like Thatcher, who by her actions devastated/ruined the lives of millions of people, as a meaningful comparison as to the reaction to the death of someone who, from the many times I saw him on tele/listened to him speak, seemed to be a beacon for good. 

I kinda knew this reply was coming when I made my post .. and whilst we differ in our views of Thatcher , it’s a fair and valid point , he sounds like a good and positive  influence on the world 

I was thinking more in terms of timing  and respect for the departed that Sidcow referred to when I made my reply

people seem to be upset and taken it personally that I’ve questioned legendary status of  someone who just died , I meant no disrespect to him or anyone else , that offence has been taken is on me and my bad 

 

[Mark Albrighton]

I think there’s sometimes a difference between being very well known and being legendary. Particularly in a given field.

Henry Cavendish is probably a legendary individual. I don’t think he’s particularly well known.

I’d definitely (obviously) describe JK Rowling as very well known. I don’t think I’d describe her as legendary. Maybe she will be considered one day. Although I personally tend to think of legendary status as being acquired once someone has died.

[tonyh29]

39 minutes ago, sidcow said:

It may have just been better and more sensitive to go into the Things you Don't Get thread and post "Literature". 

I suppose you are correct ,even if the clues were there when I specifically mentioned  country music …  but   Well I’ll say it again , in a thread where we ” celebrate “ points for deaths , I don’t really think sensitively is high on the agenda , I’ll take it under consideration next time …

I didn’t and won’t expect any in this thread when one of my influences / hero’s etc died / dies for what it’s worth 

 

[bickster]

54 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

tbf , I hardly slagged him off , more commented on the legendary status , 

Guess I should look back to when thatcher died and see everyone’s kind words though …

 

In the very specific genre of Dub Poetry Benjamin Zephaniah would have been one of the most recognisable names by anyone with an interest. Probably the second most famous artist in that genre behind Linton Kwesei Johnson and that would be a close run thing.

He was a Poet Laureate nominee, a professor of poetry at Oxford University. Even widening it out to the field of Poetry, in modern British terms he’d still be one of the most recognised names.

I think that qualifies as legendary

[romavillan]

Absolutely a legend in my eyes, Aston boy made good after growing up in some very hard times. Massive Villan, incredibly talented wordsmith, always positive despite being handed some shit cards in life to have to deal with. He couldn't have kids and that wrecked the love of his life for him IIRC. Top bloke, will be sadly missed.