Reivax_Villa Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 3 hours ago, duke313 said: Not any more unfair than promotion playoffs. If we had European football already and progressed deep into the tournament, then we happened to scrape 4th place.. would it be fair that we would have to play 3 additional games to qualify for the ECL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 1 hour ago, nick76 said: I don’t. We have cup competitions for one off/two off games. You work all season to get fourth over 38 games and then it’s down to two games against a 7th placed team who could be 5, 10, 15 even 20 points behind. I know playoffs are popular and we got up through them but I hate them, it seems so unjust the team that’s been more consistent over a long period might lose out because of one game, one bad game, a bad VAR game, one injury, one mistake. We know how much one game can make a difference and freak things happen. League should be consistency and one off/two leg games should stay for cups imo. I know I’ll be in the minority, I’m cutting my own nose off because we have more chance under this format, more games, more money…just seems unjust. Teams lose out on places in the league on simply number of goals scored. Plenty of bad decisions in a season decide places and titles. I don't think we'll see play offs anytime soon or ever but I wouldn't be against them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 12 minutes ago, MrBlack said: But there's more money for the FA if they get to host more games at Wembley. And more money for football if sky get to show 5 more games at the end of the season. Yeah we get more money but so does everybody else, or the rich get richer…no advantage in my mind. 12 minutes ago, MrBlack said: I guess the real tipping point is the entertainment value. Look how exciting that game was last night. Yes football is a sport, but it's also entertainment. The two need to be balanced. That wins the argument for the powers that be and wins the argument generally but I still think it kills the integrity of the league format. I’m not sure even if the integrity is the word I’m looking forward. Just like the Champions League is amazing, fun to watch etc etc but the Champion of Europe may not have been the Champion even of their own league the previous season unlike the old European Cup was. It makes no difference because it is all about the coin and entertainment at the end of the day, just eroding more and more what a league should be. I’m surprised the discussion hasn’t got to that we must have a winner each game, that draws aren’t allowed, there must be a winner somehow…I’m sure that will come at some point to the discussion over the coming decade or so despite how crazy it would be because that’s even more entertainment…who wants a bore draw, seems anticlimactic 19 minutes ago, MrBlack said: To add, you could see it the other way that anyone outside the top 2 had all season to be in the top 2. By finishing outside you get a bonus chance. and why should you get a bonus chance? I don’t get why you should. I guess I’m just more traditionalist. You earn second, you get second… 20 minutes ago, MrBlack said: The much much much bigger issue is that its also a business; a factor that is now overshadowing both the other aspects. Yep, and that’s why my view on this will never win. I love football, I do miss that as time goes by we are eroding the traditional parts but I understand we have to move with the times and where the money takes us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 18 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said: If we had European football already and progressed deep into the tournament, then we happened to scrape 4th place.. would it be fair that we would have to play 3 additional games to qualify for the ECL? It wouldn't be any more "unfair" than a team finishing 3rd in the league 2 points off second and then lose a promotion play-off to a team in 6th they finished 15 points ahead of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Teams lose out on places in the league on simply number of goals scored. Plenty of bad decisions in a season decide places and titles. I agree but one off games have a much greater impact that instances spread throughout the season that’s all my point is. League position is more a reflection of your season than a cup game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, nick76 said: I’m surprised the discussion hasn’t got to that we must have a winner each game, that draws aren’t allowed, there must be a winner somehow…I’m sure that will come at some point to the discussion over the coming decade or so despite how crazy it would be because that’s even more entertainment…who wants a bore draw, seems anticlimactic I am sure this has come up in the past - possibly after England losing yet another big match on penalties. Basically, if a league match ended in a draw you'd have a penalty shoot out at the end of 90 mins and then the points awarded would be: 3 points for a win in "normal" time, 2 points for a penalty shoot out win, 1 point for a penalty shoot out defeat and 0 points for a "normal" loss. I think the logic was that players would become better at taking penalties and it would add some excitement at the end. The counter-arguments were that a lot of players in the league aren't English so we'd just be improving penalty taking for everyone - and that some teams (with good penalty takers) might be more willing to play for a 0-0 draw and then hope to get 2 points by winning the penalty shoot-out. Maybe this was in the early 90s (Italia 90)? I don't think it got very far but I'm sure it was discussed. I think around the same time someone also proposed a "golden goal" extra time thing (I guess along the lines of American Football) but that was dismissed on the basis that players were playing too much anyway and so playing extra time every other week was dismissed as not being a good idea. Edited May 19, 2023 by allani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, allani said: I am sure this has come up in the past - possibly after England losing yet another big match on penalties. Basically, if a league match ended in a draw you'd have a penalty shoot out at the end of 90 mins and then the points awarded would be: 3 points for a win in "normal" time, 2 points for a penalty shoot out win, 1 point for a penalty shoot out defeat and 0 points for a "normal" loss. I think the logic was that players would become better at taking penalties and it would add some excitement at the end. The counter-arguments were that a lot of players in the league aren't English so we'd just be improving penalty taking for everyone - and that some teams (with good penalty takers) might be more willing to play for a 0-0 draw and then hope to get 2 points by winning the penalty shoot-out. Maybe this was in the early 90s (Italia 90)? I don't think it got very far but I'm sure it was discussed. I think around the same time someone also proposed a "golden goal" extra time thing (I guess along the lines of American Football) but that was dismissed on the basis that players were playing too much anyway and so playing extra time every other week was dismissed as not being a good idea. There was also Silver Goal as well which I remember from about twenty years ago https://www.thefootballhistoryboys.com/2020/08/extra-time-rise-and-fall-of-silver-goal.html Quote If a team leads after the first fifteen-minute half of extra time, it is the winner, but the game no longer ends the instant a team scores. All stupid ideas Edited May 19, 2023 by nick76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Zatman Posted May 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2023 3 hours ago, duke313 said: The greedy 6 would never allow it. Couldn’t have them losing out on CL to a 7th placed Wolves or Burnley They will introduce it the season we finish 4th 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Given the trajectory we and spurs have been on, playoff for Europe would be great. (this year). I'm not sure I'm happy about spurs being the early game. I guess if they lose I'll be pleased but it puts more pressure on the Liverpool match, but if they win it'll be hard to enjoy our game whatever (unless 7-2 again) . Would be better if they were all the same time like on the last day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 1 hour ago, rubberman said: Given the trajectory we and spurs have been on, playoff for Europe would be great. (this year). I'm not sure I'm happy about spurs being the early game. I guess if they lose I'll be pleased but it puts more pressure on the Liverpool match, but if they win it'll be hard to enjoy our game whatever (unless 7-2 again) . Would be better if they were all the same time like on the last day. Spurs lose - free hit vs Liverpool Spurs draw - basically a free hit vs Liverpool (it's going to final day) Spurs win - we then hope Saints fancy some dignity against Brighton as we play at same time! I don't think the result in the early match puts pressure on or off us really. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 I can see spurs drawing their last 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Just need to get more points than Spurs tomorrow, so that it's entirely in our hands in the final game. Liverpool at Anfield have lost like 1 in 40, so I'd be very happy if we snatch a draw while Spurs lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 (edited) Don’t like saying it but Newcastle looked best of the rest on Thursday, they were impressive and blew away a very good Brighton side. Not sure what that will do for Brightons confidence for their final 3, Southampton will be down with a whimper so not sure there is any fight left in them. Can’t see us beating Liverpool but who knows. What I will say is we look a sorted, competitive team every game now, home or away. You can see with a few more first team additions we could well do a Newcastle next season. Edited May 20, 2023 by thunderball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 I can see us drawing two and spurs losing one and winning one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 Big day today. Its in our hands to keep the pressure on with 3 points. A huge ask but not impossible! Hopefully Ollie has his scoring boots on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 Liverpool or bust. Let's go!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 I think what gives us a good chance of turning the Big six into an 8 is that we can pay top quality staff equivalent of what City or United will pay because our owners can just pay them from V Sports or NSWE or whatever as only the coaching staff factor in FFP calcs. Also the academy is also not counted to FFP. So with the extra CL place to PL next season the top 8 should get Europe. We can build a sustainable competitive model that keeps us closer to the top clubs than the remainder. If we do get Europe this season we'll be in with a great chance next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viivvaa66 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 We need to win today if we are going to get Europe. That will keep the pressure on Tottenham and Brighton going into the final match, with a chance to going above one or both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 Playoff game if both teams are level on points, would do that for the title, European spots and relegation But not every year The surprising thing is English football haven't milked their Wembley cash cow with this idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 16 minutes ago, viivvaa66 said: We need to win today if we are going to get Europe. That will keep the pressure on Tottenham and Brighton going into the final match, with a chance to going above one or both of them. We need to not lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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