Ratings & Reactions: LC2: Bolton v Villa

[WallisFrizz]

21 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You could see the confidence returning that 2nd half. The ball was zipped around. We attacked with purpose. We absolutely needed that last night and it was the correct decision. 

Agree but still would have brought Archer on much earlier.

[Demitri_C]

18 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

100% - it would be easy to dismiss it because it’s a cup game or “only Bolton” but you need your players to have those moments. The fluidity was encouraging -  and more so with introductions of Cam and Tim (however late in the game they were). 
 

Training today and tomorrow are going to be a lot more focused and confident. That can only be a good thing. 

Exactly. Its not that difficult to comprehend. We havent got a game until sunday so plenty of time for rest

[onmeedson]

What stood out for me last night was how poor our squad is, when ashley young at 95 years old and a lucky douglas louis can shine a little brighter we really are scraping the barrel. This sqaud is full of to many simular players who play for themselves and not the team, that is what the arguments are about between players for not covering fullbacks, trying to beat that extra man and not playing the simple ball. We have a hard road ahead but for me players need changing and only new players will change things .

[The_Steve]

I will add that whilst I would have been happy to take a 2-1 win yesterday, the manner of the victory would have raised more questions if we shut up shop and hung on. We didn’t. And to me that’s just as important. We need that cohesive, confident football as much as the goals.

[duke313]

1 hour ago, UpTheVilla26 said:

One win against League 1 opposition,  playing a full strength team doesn't change anything for me. 

Yes, we won 4-1 but if you pick apart the goals, 1 was a freak goal, Ings would of been flagged by VAR for the pen & their 'keeper lost the plot for Digne's. Bailey's goal was nice but by then Bolton had had it. 

For large parts of that game we looked disjointed, got exposed in the full back positions again - especially down the left, the Midfield was poor and at times we looked like a bunch of strangers who'd met an hour before kick off. 

I'm of course happy my team have won but it won't gloss over anything. The formation Gerrard continues to force us to play has major problems and weak areas that in the Prem, are being exposed weekly. He won't change that, last night was a chance to try something different and he didn't and for 45mins we looked awful again. 

My one hope is some of them players will take confidence from that win and take it on themselves to perform at the weekend as we have to rely on the fact they are better than who they play now, because Gerrard and his management of this group is making no difference. 

Bolton’s goal would also have been ruled out be VAR for a foul on Luiz

Edited August 24, 2022 by duke313

[bannedfromHandV]

8 hours ago, chappy said:

Decent evening out! Surprisingly strong side I thought but hopefully it gets then gelling a bit more.
 

We’d had the ball in the net twice before they scored so I wasn’t worried unlike some of the fans near me. Yeah we weren’t great first half but we only needed to keep it tight then our quality and superior fitness would show later on, as it did.
 

Coutinho had a decent game I thought. No complaints with the movement of Ings and Watkins either. We could’ve ended up with 7 or 8 goals with a few late breaks where we lacked composure for the final shot. Archer looked class when he came on.

Bailey’s goal was great but something weird at half time, the subs were warming up on the pitch and he was have a very animated discussion with Cash - looked like he was furious but Cash didn’t seem that interested, I’m intrigued to see if anyone else spotted it - I may have misinterpreted what I saw!
 

All in all, a good win and we’re in the draw for the next round, no complaints here! (Well except that it took 45 mins to get out of the car park, feel for the fans driving back to B’ham tonight with the m6 shut!)

 

Martinez 8

Young 8

Chambers 6

Mings 8

Digne 8

Kamara 8

McGinn 6

Luiz 8

Coutinho 8 (gave him player of the match, but could’ve been Luiz)

Watkins 7

Ings 8

I saw the the Bailey thing at half time and also found it odd.

He was only half arsed about doing the warm up and seemed more focused on being angry about something.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, onmeedson said:

What stood out for me last night was how poor our squad is, when ashley young at 95 years old and a lucky douglas louis can shine a little brighter we really are scraping the barrel. This sqaud is full of to many simular players who play for themselves and not the team, that is what the arguments are about between players for not covering fullbacks, trying to beat that extra man and not playing the simple ball. We have a hard road ahead but for me players need changing and only new players will change things .

Wtf.

[WakefieldVillan]

3 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Just my view, but it's embarrassing that line up was put out. 

What does that say about our squad overall, must be really poor outside the favoured 11 which is scary cos they've been pretty poor themselves.

Can it be guaranteed that all those that played tonight are fully fit and rested for West Ham?

Maybe I'm just looking for reasons to be annoyed but I find most decisions lately bizarre...

Yes, I think you are.

We won comfortably in the end, we're through to the next round, no injuries, with a bit of much needed confidence going into Sundays game.

Look at the side Leicester put out and they were taken to penalties by a lowly league 2 side, I dread to think what the reactions would have been on here if that had been us.

Was it free-flowing 1970's Brazilian football - No. Can we improve - Of course. Will this be under Gerrard - Perhaps not, the jury's out. But I think a lot of the fans moaning about last night's performance / team selection are anti Gerrard and are looking for anything to beat him with. For me, last night was job done. And I am glad he is taking the competition seriously. Let's hope for a couple of kind draws and let's try for a day out at Wembley. UTV.

[VillaParkAvenue]

10 hours ago, stegzy said:

Really impressed with our second half showing after a rubbish first half. Luiz was great today. Had 100% pass accuracy until his last pass (ambitious through ball) that was just cut out. Enjoyed chatting to the other Villa “fan” on Facebook that said he’d been rubbish and his passing had been trash so I checked and he’d had a 100% pass accuracy out of 40 passes. Really showed how much certain fans have a real agenda and are blind to what is happening right in front of their eyeballs.

Confirmation bias is huge in people's opinions. If someone belives player A is shit, he/she will without thinking about it constantly be looking for things to confirm that opinion and vice versa. A player could have a near perfect game except for maybe one bad touch, and that bad touch would be all the critical viewer would remember.

There's also the echo chamber effect. Last season Luiz was a bit out of form for a few games, nothing special really but online the general opinion about him quickly escalated to the point where groups of Villa fans were screaming abuse at him at home games. Absurd.

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 hour ago, onmeedson said:

What stood out for me last night was how poor our squad is, when ashley young at 95 years old and a lucky douglas louis can shine a little brighter we really are scraping the barrel. This sqaud is full of to many simular players who play for themselves and not the team, that is what the arguments are about between players for not covering fullbacks, trying to beat that extra man and not playing the simple ball. We have a hard road ahead but for me players need changing and only new players will change things .

Good morning Stevie!

[El Segundo]

Not sure how much we can gauge from that performance.  We should expect to win comfortably playing a mostly first choice 11 against a team two leagues below us and the scoreline, on the face of it,  suggests we did.  But it certainly wasn't comfortable or anything like competent first half. 

Three of our goals owed something to a flaky keeper and two to decisions that VAR may well have overturned, and our defending was a joke for Bolton's goal. 

Superior technique and fitness held sway second half but we won't have that advantage in most games.   

Great team move for Digne's goal and brilliant individual skills from Bailey for the fourth - like Traore on speed. 

Thought SG should have brought Archer and Tim on after the third went in to give them a better run out. 

If we learned anything it's that Luiz deserves a chance instead of Ramsey or McGinn in the PL.  Whether the manager takes the hint or not, who knows?

[Thug]

I’m firmly in the Gerrard out camp.

 

However, I have to say that last night’s selection of a strong team was his only real option.

We lost that, he’d be unemployed now - and with such a catastrophic failure, not likely be up for any decent gig anytime soon.

Also, the players needed that.

So whilst it’s disappointing that some of our fringe players didn’t get a run out, there were bigger things at stake.

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Thug

[WakefieldVillan]

1 hour ago, El Segundo said:

Not sure how much we can gauge from that performance.  We should expect to win comfortably playing a mostly first choice 11 against a team two leagues below us and the scoreline, on the face of it,  suggests we did.  But it certainly wasn't comfortable or anything like competent first half.  It was a poor first half performance from us and you could see we were (are) a team short on confidence - Bolton, as expected, were up for it and they were flying into tackles but you could see that we were always going to score a few goals once we settled. I reiterate what I have previously said about Leicester - they played a team THREE leagues below and were taken to penalties. What does that say about them.  I think the team / Gerrard did all what was asked last night.

Three of our goals owed something to a flaky keeper and two to decisions that VAR may well have overturned, and our defending was a joke for Bolton's goal.  You could say the Bolton goal came from a foul too, which knocked us back.

Superior technique and fitness held sway second half but we won't have that advantage in most games.  No we won't, but you can only beat the team in front of you.  

Great team move for Digne's goal and brilliant individual skills from Bailey for the fourth - like Traore on speed.  Agreed.

Thought SG should have brought Archer and Tim on after the third went in to give them a better run out. Agreed.

If we learned anything it's that Luiz deserves a chance instead of Ramsey or McGinn in the PL.  Whether the manager takes the hint or not, who knows? Agreed.

By hook or by crook we need to put in a performance against West Ham and get 3 points 

[The_Steve]

Thought I’d lighten the mood. What did Phil and Dougie order from the chippie? 

[CarryOnVilla]

Last night wasn’t a good look for ol Stevie G, despite the flattering score line. So much happened that showed how out of his depth he currently is… 

He chose a team that was overkill for the team we were playing. Of course this was to ensure a win, not a win for Villa’s progression in the cup, but a win to keep his job. Regardless of what team he put out, he would of lost his job if Villa lost the match, so he played it as safe as possible.  

Worst part of it, this team still struggled to over come Bolton’s second string team. The entire first half was dictated by Bolton’s play and Villa had no answer to it. Villa still faced the same problems as they always do, over committing midfielders and wing backs to attacking play and leaving massive open spaces in the middle of the pitch, which allows the opposition so much time and space to play their game, such as Bolton. When playing Prem teams it could be chalked off as a tactical mismatch, or an idea that needs work. when it’s happening to League 1 reserves with near enough our best team… it’s a tactical blunder that needs scrapping ASAP… but as things stand, I don’t see Stevie having a plan B or even a plan back to basics… 

As of the assets we got, I’d say drop McGinn or Ramsey for Doug and ask him to stay back on attacking plays and support Boubs if faced with counters or quick turn arounds. And only have 1 full back in the attacking play and the other staying back. Swapping the duties throughout the match. At the very least it makes us harder to be dominated.

Edited August 24, 2022 by CarryOnVilla

[Adam2003]

6 hours ago, The_Steve said:

Counterpoint: players lacking confidence need just that. Goals for Bailey for Digne will hopefully do them a world of good and ideally let Gerrard realise he needs to play with more freedom in his systems.

Playing fringe players doesn’t give you the above. Momentum in football is everything, and gives them something else to focus and work on aside from a turgid performance against Palace. 
 

Let’s not turn this into doomed if you do, doomed if you don’t. 

Yeah I think Gerrard is at the end of his rope here to some extent but I have no problem with putting out a strong team in the hope they can ‘play their way into form’. Personally I don’t believe it’s a case of player form holding us back, but of course the manager does, so it’s a totally understandable decision. If results in the league hadn’t been so awful over the past few months I’d be more inclined to mix it up. I’d probably have rested Digne as well and I’d have liked Archer to play a bit more but of all the issues I think Gerrard has, picking a strong lineup in the cups isn’t a big one.

Hopefully Dougie at least has played his way in for a game or two because he should be starting, otherwise this game was about avoiding a banana skin and picking up a win.

[WakefieldVillan]

3 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said:

Yeah he wants to win trophies, so does every manager… yet, not all managers are trying to swot a fly with a nuke. Bolton can be beat with the likes of Sanson, Nakamba, Olsen, AEG, Ludwig and the youngsters playing. 

Pointless having squad depth if it’s not being used. More so when the fist 11 are not looking too sharp at the moment. These games are a free pass to look at the other players. 

Well that's a matter of opinion whether the above sort of team would have got the job done. I don't think it would have been quite as clear cut as you make it sound. If our so called best eleven made hard work of it, what makes you think a mismatch of other players who haven't played together done any better?

No doubt if he had picked a weakened team and we had lost then he would have been criticised too.

Plus of the players you mentioned - Sanson / AEG look like they are not wanted, and perhaps Nakamba isn't fully fit. I personally would have played Olsen, nothing to lose there at all.

[CarryOnVilla]

12 minutes ago, WakefieldVillan said:

Well that's a matter of opinion whether the above sort of team would have got the job done. I don't think it would have been quite as clear cut as you make it sound. If our so called best eleven made hard work of it, what makes you think a mismatch of other players who haven't played together done any better?

No doubt if he had picked a weakened team and we had lost then he would have been criticised too.

Plus of the players you mentioned - Sanson / AEG look like they are not wanted, and perhaps Nakamba isn't fully fit. I personally would have played Olsen, nothing to lose there at all.

The first paragraph, only works in hindsight. Yes the team we played were awful in the fist half, but going in to the match, everyone would expect that 11 would of made mince meat out of Bolton. Even the players I mentioned would of done a good job… at least expected to do so.

he’s a situation where’s always going to get critics. More so with how poorly he’s been setting up villa. Yeah he’s going get it with any team he picks, and I’m criticising him on him going full tilt on a game when he could of had a free pass to experiment with new ideas and players 

as of the not wanted players, how we going to sell them when they’re not in the shop window. As I said, this is the kind of match you can play the fringe players. Give them a chance to shine, for the club or for the sale.

 

[WakefieldVillan]

1 hour ago, CarryOnVilla said:

The first paragraph, only works in hindsight. Yes the team we played were awful in the fist half, but going in to the match, everyone would expect that 11 would of made mince meat out of Bolton. Even the players I mentioned would of done a good job… at least expected to do so.

he’s a situation where’s always going to get critics. More so with how poorly he’s been setting up villa. Yeah he’s going get it with any team he picks, and I’m criticising him on him going full tilt on a game when he could of had a free pass to experiment with new ideas and players 

as of the not wanted players, how we going to sell them when they’re not in the shop window. As I said, this is the kind of match you can play the fringe players. Give them a chance to shine, for the club or for the sale.

 

That's the point I am trying to make though and you've answered it yourself - Basically he was on a hiding to nothing last night with some fans whatever the outcome. As far as I am concerned he picked a side to win the game, we did, he took a few players off after 60 mins,  got some minutes into others, we had no injuries and we got a bit of confidence back going into Sunday. 

There are things to knock him with IE, formations, making McGinn captain, not playing Buendia, continued squad absence of Sanson etc but I will cut him some slack for last night - none of us are privy to what goes on behind closed doors.

FWIW I am no Gerrard fan boy - hated him as a player, but was hopeful he could become a great manager for us, which is looking very unlikely at the moment. I just want our team to have some of the traits he had as a player and I really thought we would see that, but we're a long way off at the moment.

But anyway, we can agree to disagree buddy. We all want one thing and that's a successful Villa  

 

[MakemineVanilla]

Bolton were pretty good for a League One team and would do well to get themselves a better goalkeeper.

You could see how their players lost belief when the third goal went in, and Villa discovered the belief that has been missing so far this season.

Ian Evatt, their manager, showed a lot of empathy for his players, having had a career in the lower leagues himself.

He amused me when he exchanged some honest views with McGinn.