Parenting Corner: The joys and trials of raising little Villans

[magnkarl]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

my daughter has a tablet but that was more because we travel a fair bit with my work

she is a proper tablet zombie, has unbelievable meltdowns over it

she also knows that Saturday afternoons daddy watches the football and she gets the tablet, she will wake up at 7am and start asking me about when the football is on, she associates me watching football with her getting the tablet

the main problem is that they work, same with the TV, if my wife is at home right now and wants to cook something, I'm not there, the only way she is sitting my 1 year old and 3 year old is by putting the TV on

the next problem is that i also love the TV and IMO (but definitely not my wifes) TV creates moments with me and the kids, we watch Disney films together, my daughter is now also the age where she wants Disney songs on in the car, I want to take her to the cinema more, i don't consider it lazy that on a Sunday afternoon i want to lie on the sofa and watch toy story with my kids, that to me is good time with them

To be fair I don’t think the Disney-type long film is the issue. It’s the horrid excuse for cartoons and games that kids find on YouTube and their tablets. I paid attention to what the 8year old was watching the other day and it’s essentially a weird mix of YouTube shorts by other kids doing makeup and being horrible, and fast paced cartoons with extreme stimuli in them. Let’s just say that it wasn’t exactly Sesame Street..

I understand why kids love the content. It must lead to high levels of dopamine and gratification. I just don’t think it’s healthy.

[hogso]

20 week scan yesterday - it's a boy! 

If Villa win tonight, I'm insisting on the name being the last Villa goal scorer

Although, you guys probably don't know my surname is Kent. My actual first choice, therefore, is obviously Clark. 

[mjmooney]

6 hours ago, hogso said:

20 week scan yesterday - it's a boy! 

If Villa win tonight, I'm insisting on the name being the last Villa goal scorer

Although, you guys probably don't know my surname is Kent. My actual first choice, therefore, is obviously Clark. 

Nielsen Kent. 

[cheltenham_villa]

On 10/04/2024 at 14:07, magnkarl said:

As I said, I am an old grumpy man, so take it as you will, hehe. 

When we had two kids that age ourselves we both worked full time. I started at 7am and ended at 3pm, she started at 9 and was finished at 5pm. Sure it was stressful, but people raised kids before tablets and endless TV on back to back zombie-tube. We had help from her parents occasionally but generally our kids were encouraged to play outside and to learn how to play themselves. This day and age it seems like the short cut is often an iPad. I probably would've done that myself, but I feel that my kids would suffer for it. The amount of ADHD and short attention spans these days might be correlated to high screen time and instant gratification?

Our kids got to watch Postman Pat, Fireman Sam and Pablo the red fox when it was on for half an hour. That was it. They couldn't watch kids shows all day even if they wanted to.

I just don't think kids are meant to be spending 3-4 hours a day on an iPad, it screws up their brain and body. I feel like kids these days need to learn how to be bored. I know that sounds grumpy again..

I do think it's perceived to be harder to spend time outside playing now. I'm fortunate to live on a quiet cul de sac where everyone has children of similar ages and we have a large shared field for football and other games. From the ages of 6 or 7 we would let our children play out on their own. Outside of my street, I don't have any friends that let their children do this. 

[Stevo985]

On 10/04/2024 at 17:30, magnkarl said:

To be fair I don’t think the Disney-type long film is the issue. It’s the horrid excuse for cartoons and games that kids find on YouTube and their tablets. I paid attention to what the 8year old was watching the other day and it’s essentially a weird mix of YouTube shorts by other kids doing makeup and being horrible, and fast paced cartoons with extreme stimuli in them. Let’s just say that it wasn’t exactly Sesame Street..

I understand why kids love the content. It must lead to high levels of dopamine and gratification. I just don’t think it’s healthy.

This is a concern, but on the other hand I'm certain that the reason my son is good at counting and recognising colours and animals etc is through what he watches on YouTube

Although he's at the age where I can have a certain amount of control over what he watches. I suppose when he gets older I'll have less and less.

He doesn't have the phone/ipad very often, but we do use it now and then. More  often we put YouTube on the TV but that way I can control what he's watching.

 

 

I do think the screen time thing is exagerrated somewhat though just because it's now on ipads/phones rather than televisions.
When I was a kid all I did was watch TV and play video games. Almost literally  

[bobzy]

YouTube is horrific to be honest. Our girls watch YouTube Kids occasionally but it’s only ever to watch the drawing/colouring or baking things and after one has finished, it’s goes off. Their main watching is Disney+ (Bluey and Doc McStuffins are the current favourites) although my eldest (6) prefers to do something rather than watch - could be drawing/writing, could be playing on her tablet.

The mood after a lot of “screen time” is ridiculous, though. Definitely something I’m more careful with now. 

[magnkarl]

39 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

This is a concern, but on the other hand I'm certain that the reason my son is good at counting and recognising colours and animals etc is through what he watches on YouTube

Although he's at the age where I can have a certain amount of control over what he watches. I suppose when he gets older I'll have less and less.

He doesn't have the phone/ipad very often, but we do use it now and then. More  often we put YouTube on the TV but that way I can control what he's watching.

 

 

I do think the screen time thing is exagerrated somewhat though just because it's now on ipads/phones rather than televisions.
When I was a kid all I did was watch TV and play video games. Almost literally  

But is it fair to compare the TV-programmes of your youth to the dopamine rush, rigged, 2 second, clippy, horrible shit that is called a children's cartoon these days? I'm not so sure. 

I saw a documentary on this in German the other day, the usual length of a typical 2d scene of a children's cartoon in the 90's was 10-20 secs, it's now 2.5 seconds. It's literally so fast, so nervous and so packed full of impressions that the kids get overstimulated. They checked all the main channels and providers, and everyone was doing it. Bluey, peppa, local national kids stuff - you name it.

The brand of TV you watched is dead and gone, now they're high paced, colourful dramatic voiceover machines that build reactions in our kids. Didn't you learn to count with your calmer, long format programmes back in the day? You don't need fast paced content to learn to count. Let's compare this 90s sesame street episode on learning to count:

with this trippy youtube cocomelon episode which coincidentally my granddaughter loves:

Spot the difference? Count the clip structure in the second video. There's more impressions in 5 seconds than in the whole first video, anxious voices, high tension, lots of bright, neon colours, kids cheering and so on.

Edited Monday at 08:06 by magnkarl

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

But is it fair to compare the TV-programmes of your youth to the dopamine rush, rigged, 2 second, clippy, horrible shit that is called a children's cartoon these days? I'm not so sure. 

 

My parents would have said the same thing about what I was watching.

And my son will say the same thing about what his kids are watching

[Stevo985]

14 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

The brand of TV you watched is dead and gone, now they're high paced, colourful dramatic voiceover machines that build reactions in our kids. Didn't you learn to count with your calmer, long format programmes back in the day? You don't need fast paced content to learn to count.

Again this happens every generation, it's not new.

Like you say, they all do the same thing. Entertain kids, they're educational, teach life lessons. Job done.

There's some problematic stuff out there, so there's an element of parental control needed, but that's never changed really.

 

I think the only thing that's definitely worse is the ease of access. You can't just watch tv channels and watch what's on, you can access whatever you want all the time whenever you want it. That's a problem. Even at 2 I've noticed my son can't comprehend something not being available right now. if he asks for Peppa you can't say "it's not on". He  knows it's on if you want it to be on.

That's my biggest issue with it.

The content for me is meh. It's a bit odd to me. But TV content changes.

[PieFacE]

We try and keep our lad away from Youtube at the min. I know it's going to be a problem one day so we're just delaying it as much as possible. When it comes to TV we seem to cycle through Clangers, Hey Duggee, Bluey and Sarah and Duck. All pretty harmless and fun in their own right.

Not looking forward to the day when he can use a tablet himself and constantly click things on YouTube. 

[bobzy]

30 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

My parents would have said the same thing about what I was watching.

And my son will say the same thing about what his kids are watching

I don’t think that’s quite right - or, rather, not the same thing.

There are so many “quick flick” things out there that kids are getting addicted in the same manner that my (late 30s) generation seem to be with phones now. Just habitual scrolling through stuff rather than an intent to look for a particular thing.

My parents might have had a “screen time” worry, but I reckon this is an actual behaviour shift and is a different beast. 

Edited Monday at 08:43 by bobzy

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don’t think that’s quite right - or, rather, not the same thing.

There are so many “quick flick” things out there that kids are getting addicted in the same manner that my (late 30s) generation seem to be with phones now. Just habitual scrolling through stuff rather than an intent to look for a particular thing.

My parents might have had a “screen time” worry, but I reckon this is an actual behaviour shift and is a different beast. 

I don't really think it's different.

it was a behavioural thing for us as well. When my parents were kids they hardly had any children's TV. Or TV in general. Kids sitting around watching TV or playing video games all day was a completely alien concept. Kids in my generation were addicted to cartoons and video games. We were constantly told that behaviour was different and wrong. Now it's normal and this new behaviour is different and wrong

I think it's just the standard thing that happens in every generation, people think the changes in the new generation are bad and their generation was better.

 

It almost never is

Edited Monday at 08:47 by Stevo985

[Genie]

44 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

My parents would have said the same thing about what I was watching.

And my son will say the same thing about what his kids are watching

I agree, we had things like Power Rangers, Pokémon, Ninja Turtles which were all that same sort of thing. 

[bobzy]

13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't really think it's different.

it was a behavioural thing for us as well. When my parents were kids they hardly had any children's TV. Or TV in general. Kids sitting around watching TV or playing video games all day was a completely alien concept. Kids in my generation were addicted to cartoons and video games. We were constantly told that behaviour was different and wrong. Now it's normal and this new behaviour is different and wrong

I think it's just the standard thing that happens in every generation, people think the changes in the new generation are bad and their generation was better.

 

It almost never is

I know they didn’t have those things, but their entertainment (whatever it was) was focussed on <something>. When kids (or we, whoever) watch a cartoon or programme, their (our) mind is focussed on that thing that they’re watching. So whilst it’s a different “thing”, the behaviour is the same.

With the “quick flick” dopamine hit stuff, that behaviour is not the same. There’s a lack of focus, it’s a shift to the next thing because you can and “need to”. That isn’t the same as parents not having TV but then kids having TV, it’s an entire change in how the mind is settling on something.

It may not be a problem but given what I see in myself and other adults a lack of focus is becoming a real issue. To the point now where I’m working, but replying on a forum because I can and it’s there.

This sort of thing is just going to be exacerbated if kids are picking it up. It may be inevitable, it might not even be an issue, but I think it’s a very different beast from “we had cartoons and we turned out fine” - and that’s ignoring things such as the (potentially scary) rabbit holes that algorithms will send kids down. 

[StefanAVFC]

We've made the call that our son won't have any screen time (video calls aside) until he's 2. I would be a bit more flexible on it but my wife was quite serious about it.

 

We'll see what sort of impact it has.

[PieFacE]

8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

We've made the call that our son won't have any screen time (video calls aside) until he's 2. I would be a bit more flexible on it but my wife was quite serious about it.

 

We'll see what sort of impact it has.

Fair play! We originally had intentions like that but it got a bit lost when we just needed like 15mins to ourselves to do the washing or whatever. 

[Jonesy7211]

A cautionary tale...

You really do have to be careful about limiting the screen time, and especially what they watch on youtube. We were fairly relaxed about my son having it. He did, and still does, plenty of outdoor activities but he'd always prefer to watch the short youtube videos over a cartoon or movie on TV when he had screen time. He's on the spectrum, so this is a big part of it, but when we'd cut him off his behavior would become worse and he'd do whatever he could to get his hands on another internet enabled device. He'd wait for us to go to sleep to get his switch or iPad from our bedroom, and then watch it all night. It got so bad we've had to buy a safe to put the devices in at night. To get around that, he'd steal his sister's iPad during the day when the safe would be open, hide it in his room and lie about it. We've now had to ban youtube at the router level, so it can't be accessed from any device on the Wi-Fi.

I wish we'd never given him access to begin with all those years ago. I thought we'd always been fairly restrictive; he'd never have more than an hour a day and we'd turn all visual stimulation off at 6 until he'd gone to bed at 8. It still didn't help.

By the same token, my daughter just wants to be outside in the garden all the time, and she has access to devices. I think it's very much an individual thing.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't really think it's different.

it was a behavioural thing for us as well. When my parents were kids they hardly had any children's TV. Or TV in general. Kids sitting around watching TV or playing video games all day was a completely alien concept. Kids in my generation were addicted to cartoons and video games. We were constantly told that behaviour was different and wrong. Now it's normal and this new behaviour is different and wrong

I think it's just the standard thing that happens in every generation, people think the changes in the new generation are bad and their generation was better.

 

It almost never is

I think the big difference is patience and attention span. 

This has changed massively in my years as a teacher. 

I would sit and watch TV for hours as a kid but I had to watch what was on and sit through adverts and wait for the shows I wanted. 

Now it's instant demand. My kids can't even sit through 6 seconds of a bluey intro and have to press the skip intro button. 

My kids aren't on YouTube but on there you just keep swiping up until you've found the 15 second video that grabs your attention. 

[DCJonah]

48 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I know they didn’t have those things, but their entertainment (whatever it was) was focussed on <something>. When kids (or we, whoever) watch a cartoon or programme, their (our) mind is focussed on that thing that they’re watching. So whilst it’s a different “thing”, the behaviour is the same.

With the “quick flick” dopamine hit stuff, that behaviour is not the same. There’s a lack of focus, it’s a shift to the next thing because you can and “need to”. That isn’t the same as parents not having TV but then kids having TV, it’s an entire change in how the mind is settling on something.

It may not be a problem but given what I see in myself and other adults a lack of focus is becoming a real issue. To the point now where I’m working, but replying on a forum because I can and it’s there.

This sort of thing is just going to be exacerbated if kids are picking it up. It may be inevitable, it might not even be an issue, but I think it’s a very different beast from “we had cartoons and we turned out fine” - and that’s ignoring things such as the (potentially scary) rabbit holes that algorithms will send kids down. 

Yep. 

As an adult I can see the impact it has on my behaviour at times. 

I sometimes struggle to sit and watch a TV show without grabbing my phone to check something. It's just become a habit. 

At least I'm an adult who can understand that happening and try to make more of an effort. 

Young kids have no chance. 

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

We've made the call that our son won't have any screen time (video calls aside) until he's 2. I would be a bit more flexible on it but my wife was quite serious about it.

We'll see what sort of impact it has.

we thought the same, then as I said before we discovered that the reality is that the tv has controlling powers over a kid unlike any other mechanism known to man, there comes the age and the scenario where you just need them to sit still for 20 minutes and the TV will do it better than anything else 

me and the wife had to do a tax return 2 weeks ago, a couple of hours where we need to concentrate use the laptops and cant give the kids the attention they need, my 1 year old and 3 year old watched the lion king while we did it (well i say we...i was gone by the time cant wait to be king came on)

where we live we don't have the ability to give the kids away to grand parents for an hour whilst at the same time they aren't there yet where they will happily play with their toys and entertain themselves for a prolonged duration of time 

that said me and the wife argue like mad over it, she's stricter than me and doesnt want them to watch it but she'll also happily ignore them while she's doing something which i think is unfair on them

we do have the thing in our house that while im watching the football my daughter can watch her tablet - she starts asking me when the football starts at around 7.20am most saturdays - again IMO its unfair that i can watch the TV but she cant