tomav84 Posted June 27, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 27, 2022 9 hours ago, Reivax_Villa said: I think we need an experienced gritty defender with premier league experience to help us see out games. Mings is not a great CB and that’s what we need unfortunately. in your opinion. i think he's one of the best CB's in the league as evidenced by his 17 england caps 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 21 minutes ago, tomav84 said: in your opinion. i think he's one of the best CB's in the league as evidenced by his 17 england caps Agree, hugely underrated by a growing portion of our fan base and we would need to spend massive money to upgrade on him. Has a mistake in him sure, but so did some of the best ever CB's in the PL (think Vidic who had some utter howlers in massive games). He brings leadership, athleticism and has a much better ability than most give him credit for for bringing the ball out from the back (think Man Utd @ home etc). He is also a fantastic ambassador for the club with how he presents to the media. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 11 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Agree, hugely underrated by a growing portion of our fan base and we would need to spend massive money to upgrade on him. Has a mistake in him sure, but so did some of the best ever CB's in the PL (think Vidic who had some utter howlers in massive games). He brings leadership, athleticism and has a much better ability than most give him credit for for bringing the ball out from the back (think Man Utd @ home etc). He is also a fantastic ambassador for the club with how he presents to the media. Exactly. I think people are easily swayed by the bullshit written about him on social media, including some Villa fans. He had an excellent season last season. You only need to look how shite the England defence were when supposedly filled with better players than Mings to know that there are few in this league better than him. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 9 hours ago, nick76 said: Spurs arent Tier 1, they are in Tier 2 of that list. Chelsea faded in the second half of the season and still finished above Spurs by 3 points. Arsenal were favourities for 4th place until they lost it and then Spurs took over. Just no way Spurs can be considered Tier 1 over the others. Tier 3 & 4 Im not sure how you determine that...ambition, owners, league placing, recent history. For example Brighton finished 6 points and 5 places above us and arguably with a decent striker could've done even better. West Ham are miles above us on 11 points and last season had European football, I bet they dont consider us in the same catergory. I think you combine Tier 3 & 4 and it depends on a particular season how each do, sometimes a team does well, sometimes they do poorly. The difference is that we have more money, but some of the others have consistency finishing higher than us regularly. We massively underperformed last season if you hadn't noticed, Brighton overperformed, and they have now lost Bissouma and soon to be Cucurella so that's their 2 best players gone. I'm basing this mainly on the strength of our squad compared to the others, we should have finished above Brighton, Palace, Brentford and Newcastle last season, the fact we didn't is completely on us, and I did say that I felt we were towards the lower end of tier 3 and West Ham would be near the upper end of it. But of course other things like ambition/owners come into it, I think as things stand we still have a better team/squad than Newcastle, but they are the richest team in the world so it's quite likely they will add more quality in addition to Botman and Pope. With us I'm not so sure we will unless we sell some players. I do see what you are saying about combining tiers 3 and 4 because the PL is very competitive, but essentially I think we have every reason to expect to finish above those teams in tier 4 looking at our team now and the amount of quality we have in most positions. As for Spurs, you could argue they belong in tier 2 but I think they could do really well next season with Conte, I don't know for sure because they still have some weak players in their first 11 but that front 3 and CM is very, very good and Conte knows how to win. I think they'll be a few points off City and Liverpool but will stay up there for much of the season. Chelsea don't look to me like a team that will challenge for the league next season, their form towards the end of last season was really poor, they no longer have Abramovich, and players like Rudiger and Christensen have left. They still have a gaping hole up front as well seeing as Lukaku flopped. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, tomav84 said: in your opinion. i think he's one of the best CB's in the league as evidenced by his 17 england caps Carlton Palmer played 18 times for England, Heskey played 62 games, doesn't really mean that much. CB is also a weak area for England seeing as players like Guehi and Coady are regulars in the squad and Ben Godfrey got a couple of games. I actually think Mings is better than those players and was unfairly dropped from the recent squad, but I don't agree he's one of the best CBs in the league and is probably upgradeable with some clever scouting. He'll always divide opinion for sure. Edited June 27, 2022 by VillaFaninLondon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 27, 2022 Author Share Posted June 27, 2022 44 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: We massively underperformed last season if you hadn't noticed, Brighton overperformed, and they have now lost Bissouma and soon to be Cucurella so that's their 2 best players gone. I'm basing this mainly on the strength of our squad compared to the others, we should have finished above Brighton, Palace, Brentford and Newcastle last season, the fact we didn't is completely on us, and I did say that I felt we were towards the lower end of tier 3 and West Ham would be near the upper end of it. But of course other things like ambition/owners come into it, I think as things stand we still have a better team/squad than Newcastle, but they are the richest team in the world so it's quite likely they will add more quality in addition to Botman and Pope. With us I'm not so sure we will unless we sell some players. I do see what you are saying about combining tiers 3 and 4 because the PL is very competitive, but essentially I think we have every reason to expect to finish above those teams in tier 4 looking at our team now and the amount of quality we have in most positions. I agree mostly with your points but I think your tiers 3 and 4 are just too close to separate. I think the current difference between us and West Ham is just as big as the difference between Brighton and us. Palace have a young team that will have a year’s extra experience, interesting to see how they do without Gallagher if he doesn’t go back. We have been poor for 18 months now and while we have better players neither Smith or Gerrard really found consistent cohesion for the team over the 18 months and really no sign of one. We hope that changes next season with Gerrard getting more time but there is no guarantee. Many teams in the past have a bunch of great players that don’t ever seem to work, hope we won’t be one of them. It’s why some days I see us potentially challenging for 7th spot next season and then other days 12th spot. 54 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: As for Spurs, you could argue they belong in tier 2 but I think they could do really well next season with Conte, I don't know for sure because they still have some weak players in their first 11 but that front 3 and CM is very, very good and Conte knows how to win. I think they'll be a few points off City and Liverpool but will stay up there for much of the season. Chelsea don't look to me like a team that will challenge for the league next season, their form towards the end of last season was really poor, they no longer have Abramovich, and players like Rudiger and Christensen have left. They still have a gaping hole up front as well seeing as Lukaku flopped. My main reason for Spurs being in Tier 2 is less about the likes of Chelsea but more that Man City and Liverpool are playing at a different level. They will both get over 90 points again next season and Spurs won’t even come close to that even with a Conte exceptional season. I think at best Spurs will get 80 points and that’s everything going right for them, so they would just be best of Tier 2. I still think that maybe a struggle to get close as that as Spurs have a history of underachieving just when they look like they may do something, so expect Conte to walk out at some point in the season 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 11 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I think a lot will depend on our home form. It was really poor last season and hard to pin point why in many games. Are they struggling to break teams down? Is it the pressure from fans ? Im sure Villa Park was like a fortress once. Feels like such a long time ago I can’t remember when that was. I can remember that, but it was some time ago....even during the reign of O'Neill with 6-6-6 finishes, it was our away form that secured that....our home form was still iffy. Teams have to come to Villa Park, with trepidation.....and they don't.....They have to come knowing its going to be a battle, and have to be at their best......too many times, we have conceded the initiative in a game, far too easily. Players of the past with character like Shaun Teale, Des Bremner, Andy Gray, Peter Withe, Allan Evans, I could go on......they didn't know the word yield......thats what we have to get back to, that mentality. I think to have a solid home form, you need to be defensively competent, hard to play against, durable and immovable.....you need the right players, to do that. We are on our way, but not there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted June 27, 2022 Share Posted June 27, 2022 We should be targeting 6th place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 12 hours ago, nick76 said: I agree mostly with your points but I think your tiers 3 and 4 are just too close to separate. I think the current difference between us and West Ham is just as big as the difference between Brighton and us. Palace have a young team that will have a year’s extra experience, interesting to see how they do without Gallagher if he doesn’t go back. We have been poor for 18 months now and while we have better players neither Smith or Gerrard really found consistent cohesion for the team over the 18 months and really no sign of one. We hope that changes next season with Gerrard getting more time but there is no guarantee. Many teams in the past have a bunch of great players that don’t ever seem to work, hope we won’t be one of them. It’s why some days I see us potentially challenging for 7th spot next season and then other days 12th spot. My main reason for Spurs being in Tier 2 is less about the likes of Chelsea but more that Man City and Liverpool are playing at a different level. They will both get over 90 points again next season and Spurs won’t even come close to that even with a Conte exceptional season. I think at best Spurs will get 80 points and that’s everything going right for them, so they would just be best of Tier 2. I still think that maybe a struggle to get close as that as Spurs have a history of underachieving just when they look like they may do something, so expect Conte to walk out at some point in the season Totally see where you're coming from and you are definitely looking at it from a 'realist' perspective - of course we may underachieve once again but with today's announcement to increase Villa Park to a 60,000 capacity stadium with world class facilities we have to see some progression on the pitch. Getting back to being the best in the Midlands will be a good start, Wolves have finished in the top 10 three out of four times since promotion, Leicester haven't finished outside the top half for 5 years now, whereas despite lots of investment we still haven't finished in the top half since 2011. It really isn't good enough for a club of our size and despite reservations about the manager I think the absolute minimum next season will be a top half finish and at least to be within a few points of the likes of West Ham if we cannot finish above them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 11 hours ago, maqroll said: We should be targeting 6th place. Not a chance with this team as it stands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Spurs and Arsenal are making the gap bigger. West Ham look to be spending big. It's going to be incredibly difficult to finish any higher than 9th next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) Has pre season training started yet? We've got a game in 2 weeks. Edited June 30, 2022 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Has pre season training started yet? We've got a game in 2 weeks. Don't think it has - there would have been a photo gallery in the app. It probably starts Monday. Mean the much lauded "pre season" is actually 4 weeks.....- we had a 3 week break in Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, hippo said: Don't think it has - there would have been a photo gallery in the app. It probably starts Monday. Mean the much lauded "pre season" is actually 4 weeks.....- we had a 3 week break in Jan. I've seen other teams started this Monday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 11 hours ago, DCJonah said: Spurs and Arsenal are making the gap bigger. West Ham look to be spending big. It's going to be incredibly difficult to finish any higher than 9th next season. This is what I was thinking today. The gap is widening as we speak between European contenders and mid-table teams. It will be extremely difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, sidcow said: I've seen other teams started this Monday Birmingham live are saying we started June 27 ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, hippo said: Birmingham live are saying we started June 27 ..... Strange there has been no coverage on O/S or media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Just now, sidcow said: Strange there has been no coverage on O/S or media. Starts next Monday, players are doing Pre Pre-season training with external coaches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, sidcow said: Strange there has been no coverage on O/S or media. I wonder if the new stadium talk has drowned it out. I'm expecting a photo drop in the app tommorow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 19 minutes ago, hippo said: Don't think it has - there would have been a photo gallery in the app. It probably starts Monday. Mean the much lauded "pre season" is actually 4 weeks.....- we had a 3 week break in Jan. I've said it before pre-season is seen as this panacea for all a teams problems. Its literally a month to get fit after holidays with a handful of low intensity games chucked in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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