duke313 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, HKP90 said: Not really, he's got decent progression stats despite being largely used as a 6. Granted his ball winning as a 6 is not brilliant, but I think a few of us have been asking for him to be relieved of those duties as they aren't his natural game. They are below average according to that chart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 Just now, duke313 said: They are below average according to that chart. only slightly. And that's playing as a 6. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Not really, he's got decent progression stats despite being largely used as a 6. Granted his ball winning as a 6 is not brilliant, but I think a few of us have been asking for him to be relieved of those duties as they aren't his natural game. Proof positive of what I just said @Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 hours ago, TRO said: I agree. We also have to factor in, that as we keep adding better quality, existing players will be affected by new recruits, for the better. I have seen it in the past, where exisiting players have upped their game as a result of team strengthening. It think that will naturally happen. Agreed and it’s more reason for encouragement. Also, the less players that are having to cover for deficiencies and carry out multiple roles (which they aren’t completely suited to either) the better. Allow each player to focus on their strengths and we’ll be much better for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, HKP90 said: only slightly. And that's playing as a 6. His progression is a good bit below average, it's the same as Westwood. His ball-winning is near enough average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, est1874 said: A lot of neutrals/non-Villa supporters seem to think he's class for some reason. And there are, believe it or not, some people here who don't mind him I think he's a waste of space personally - almost every game. Really? I think he’s a good player that gets a hell of a lot of stick. Do think he’s a bit of liability though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, est1874 said: Proof positive of what I just said @Vive_La_Villa Do you really think he's dogshit? I just don't get it. I mean he's not been mega effective where he's been asked to play, but he's not awful. We've just been massively unbalanced as a team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 £30m for Joe Gomez is the funniest fake transfer story next to us selling Mings to Newcastle. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Do you really think he's dogshit? I just don't get it. I mean he's not been mega effective where he's been asked to play, but he's not awful. We've just been massively unbalanced as a team. I think he's a massive liability who has a poor touch and doesn't do any specific midfield job particularly well. He's the Brazilian Tom Cleverley. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, The_Steve said: £30m for Joe Gomez is the funniest fake transfer story next to us selling Mings to Newcastle. This feels like tempting fate twice over 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Shaun Teales Moustache said: I saw an opinion yesterday that I agreed with, so I went digging for some stats. I'll preface this by saying this is about as relevant as xG is as a "stat", because it looks at some actual stats and draws conclusions without considering a bunch of other relevant factors. Regardless, I thought it was interesting, as it went way against what I previously believed. I want us to play with Buendia and Coutinho behind Watkins, so I looked at games Villa started with all combinations of Buendia, Coutinho, Watkins and Ings to see which was most successful - thinking we were much better with both. I was surprised to find that we were most successful with NEITHER Buendia or Coutinho starting. We played 6 games where neither started, and won 3, so 1.5 points per game - the best 2 combinations we had (Watkins solo and Watkins/Ings). We also played 6 with both starting, and won 1, drew 1, lost 4 - so 0.66 points per game - worst (Ings, Buendia, Coutinho) and 3rd worst (Watkins, Buendia, Coutinho). Even more interesting, the 6 games we played with neither were on paper far tougher than the 6 with both. Every other combination of the 4 players were in between those extremes, and getting into the details there shows how arbitrary these stats are (STILL GIGAWATTS MORE RELEVANT THAN xG). Anyway, I still want us to play both Buendia and Coutinho, so my biased opinion is that if we're going to play two lightweight guys like that, we need to add some more physicality in midfield to balance it out. That's why I don't see the benefit of another skillful whippet like Otavio, when the midfield is already too lightweight. I don't see the benefit if a guy like JWP, who I think is basically in the same tier/style of player as Luiz, Sanson and is at very, very best insignificantly better. He's definitely not going to beef up the midfield. I don't want a Conor Gallagher, even though he and JWP are unboubtedly very good players. I want a big, strong, fast, technical guy, who's good in the air and scores goals. Is that too much to ask for? Also, if we're going for a fancy pants guy, Lucas Paqueta > Otavio. 2 hours ago, duke313 said: I agree, those players you mentioned we are linked with are good in there own right but we need a powerhouse in midfield. Bissouma would have been perfect. Also you might think Paqueta is better than Otavio but he would cost probably double. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, est1874 said: I think he's a massive liability who has a poor touch and doesn't do any specific midfield job particularly well. He's the Brazilian Tom Cleverley. Best post of the day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 39 minutes ago, His Name Is Death said: Goes to show how we shouldn't be overawed by these charts. Don't Everton fans regard Allan as complete dogshit? 39 minutes ago, HKP90 said: In fairness, I've only seen him once, but he looked decent. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 37 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Oh and big caveat with this progressive actions per touches stats is that its dependent on the team's play style. If your team is instructed to launching balls straight to a target man up field whenever they can, they're going to score highly in this metric regardless of their actual progressive ability. And players who play for more patient teams who will do a bit of sideways passing in order to try and unlock defenses are going to score badly. *cough* McGinn *cough* 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa Stu Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 8 minutes ago, Jas10 said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, CVByrne said: Far too small a sample size to draw any conclusions what so ever I mean it's the only one we've got and I'm not sure I drew any... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 Still nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mazrim Posted June 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2022 Traore is so much fun. I hope we keep him around. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post maqroll Posted June 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, MrBlack said: But the interest in Bissouma appears to have been from before we signed Kamara. No solid links after we got Kamara so not sure if they are definitely looking for a more commanding presence still. The latest links seem to suggest we're looking for a play maker type progressive passer. Fwiw, I think we'd be better off going the route with another kamara type (Sangare please). We need a blitzkrieg on Sangarė. Would be the final piece of the puzzle. Watkins Coutinho. Buendia Ramsey. Sangare Kamara Digne. Mings. Carlos. Cash Martinez 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 47 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Oh and big caveat with this progressive actions per touches stats is that its dependent on the team's play style. If your team is instructed to launching balls straight to a target man up field whenever they can, they're going to score highly in this metric regardless of their actual progressive ability. And players who play for more patient teams who will do a bit of sideways passing in order to try and unlock defenses are going to score badly. Indeed, and although McGinn scores highly on progressive passes, his overall passing accuracy is shocking (we are talking one of the worst out of all CM's in the league). So for every good thing he's doing going forward, there's loads of instances where he's giving the ball straight to the opposition, often in bad areas. That's the McGinn conundrum, he's always trying to be all action, trying ambitious stuff and when he's on its highly effective. But when he's off the pace it can be horrendous; e.g. trying hollywood passes 30 yards from our goal after we've just been under the cosh for 5 minutes, and unsurprisingly seeing it come straight back resulting in more pressure. He's way more effective when he keeps it sensible and picks his moments for trying things (like when Gerrard first came in, and towards the end of the season). That needs to be his normal, otherwise we are never going to be able to control games, and its going to always be high risk high reward play which is inconsistent by its nature. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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