Steven Gerrard

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 minutes ago, lexicon said:

See also Conor McGregor, Boris Johnson, Trump etc.

Mings: " If I didn't grow up respecting you as a player, I'd knock your head clean off for this disrespect"

SG: " You'll do nuttin!!!!! "

Edited August 8, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[blandy]

Some posts moved: Can we please use the threads people have gone to the trouble of starting for stuff like next manager and player selections and tactics and wotnot

 

[the_sun_never_sets]

Im not usually one to over-react but if we dont beat Everton with a vastly improved, dynamic performance then I think we need to be moving on without Gerrard. Its not necessarily the result vs bournemouth that alarms me...its how we lost. We are seeing the exact same problems we saw at the end of last season (principally carrying no attacking threat), Gerrard said he needed a pre season to fix them repeatedly so either a) he doesnt see the key problems we have or b) he can't fix them - both of which are concerning. Now, credit where credits due, I genuinely think he's built an unbelivable squad. I just dont think he's able to get the best out of that squad by setting us up wrong/ coaching us ineffectively. He talks a good game...but I dont see that being transferred onto the pitch where it matters. That said, we should only twist if a manager is available who can actively improve us e.g. Poch. I think ultimately Gerard could scrap enough points to finish 12-14 again... So a stable premier league outfit, no point risking that for an average manager. As I said though - this really isnt me overreacting to a result... its the nature of the perfomance itself that really disappointed and alarmed me. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by the_sun_never_sets

[Tom13]

11 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I've contested his pedigree as a player while he was still playing mate, trust me. He was a 100 mph explosive player that the English loved. He was not as adept at controlling games from midfield, kind of like our JJ actually. No surprise his best run of form came playing further up supporting Fernando Torres with Mascherano and Xabi Alonso taking care of the defensive and possession aspects behind him. I don't think he was ever in that world elite category.

Mate, you've put this better than I ever could have, but this is exactly my belief and I'm glad there are others that see it too.

[catanzaro]

It was a brave decision to take on the job of villa manager. In years gone by if he failed, he would be given a free pass due to lack of investment (..and other excuses). Now however, if he fails, not even his close pals in the media will be able to soften the blow. Its clear to all that he has been given plenty of support and I reckon he'll have to go to the lower leagues to start again if things don't work here.

This also makes me think that Purslow must recognise the risk for Gerrard, so I think he'll be given the January window (unless of course, we're at the foot of the table by the start of the WC). The games from Feb onwards will be where Purslow will be looking for a genuine lift in the quality of our football and obviously the points total. 

[ender4]

We pretty much know that NSWE and Purslow expect 7th this season.   

So their thinking will be can Gerrard get 7th or not?  If not, cut losses sooner rather than later.    It's a gamble to keep him and a gamble to sack him.   

29 games (2/3 of a season) into Gerrard's reign and they will be asking whether he has improved Villa on the pitch, both in results and tactically and by coaching of individual players. 

After 29 games the answer if currently a resounding no. 

Lets say he wins 4 out of the next 10 games.  Even that only makes his record for Villa average over a whole season (39 games by then). 

 He now needs a massive swing in his favour before the world cup to be able to salvage his managerial career at Villa.

[Made In Aston]

It's a bit of a strange one as Gerrard did eventually come good at Rangers after a couple of very mediocre seasons and 38 player changes(apparently). That said, it's a totally different situation, as Rangers was a big team in the division, so had high levels of possession and also could afford to be patient. 

With other teams around us improving, it's getting tougher to break the top 8 and I don't think we can afford that amount of time to see if he comes good. Personally I haven't seen enough potential from him to suggest he will get to where we need him to. I'd like to be wrong but I think the odds aren't in his favour. 

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

I'm afraid his man management is failing him. As a player, he was the sort of person who would boost his own morale. He thinks every player is (or should be) like this. There was an interview with (I think) Ollie last season where the interviewer asked what Gerrard had said to him. Ollie said something along the lines of 'not much'. SG expects a certain temperament -- I think this is what he means when he says about our 'identity' or 'brand -- and he wants rid if he doesn't see it (hello bomb squad).

 

I'm imagining the conversation he had with Mings. And then the one he has had post-Saturday with McGinn. I cannot imagine a scenario where he was able to deliver the news diplomatically. Mind, if his decision works, he'll look like a genius. Unfortunately, if it doesn't, he will have destroyed the morale of two longstanding players (and the knock-on effect it will have on others that are close to them). 

 

His signings have been unbelievable -- he has such star power in attracting these people. But I haven't seen anything outstanding about him as a coach yet. Tactically, I think he's naive (the wing backs bombing on and expecting the CMs to fill in was exposed time after time last season) and hasn't showed much ability to reflect on his own decisions (instead of blaming the sh*t* application of others). And other than JJ (who may have been on the up anyway), I can't see a player who has accelerated their development under SG. He needs to show that he can attract these superb players and develop them, otherwise he's going down the route of managers from days-gone-by where your existing players' values drop like a stone. This doesn't accord with the model that Purslow and co have tried to put in place.

 

It's a weird balancing act: ironically, I think DS had the combination of being a paternal figure as well as someone who was interested in the more modern technical aspects of the game. SG is far more traditional in his football values, rigid in his style and is seemingly quite aloof from the players, but he's undeniably a star. If you're a youngster, he must be quite awe inspiring. If you're an established player who doesn't fit into his mould, it must be frustrating. 

 

From a fan perspective, I find SG quite frustrating. I want to buy into his vision and I actually like his arrogance (we've needed it for a while), but I'm not entirely convinced he has the wherewithal as a coach to get it done without blowing up the entire squad. 

 

[Davkaus]

14 minutes ago, Made In Aston said:

It's a bit of a strange one as Gerrard did eventually come good at Rangers after a couple of very mediocre seasons and 38 player changes(apparently). 

No **** wonder his first and only idea was to moan and insist he needs new players. **** hell.

[ender4]

2 minutes ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

I'm afraid his man management is failing him. As a player, he was the sort of person who would boost his own morale. He thinks every player is (or should be) like this. There was an interview with (I think) Ollie last season where the interviewer asked what Gerrard had said to him. Ollie said something along the lines of 'not much'. SG expects a certain temperament -- I think this is what he means when he says about our 'identity' or 'brand -- and he wants rid if he doesn't see it (hello bomb squad).

 

I'm imagining the conversation he had with Mings. And then the one he has had post-Saturday with McGinn. I cannot imagine a scenario where he was able to deliver the news diplomatically. Mind, if his decision works, he'll look like a genius. Unfortunately, if it doesn't, he will have destroyed the morale of two longstanding players (and the knock-on effect it will have on others that are close to them). 

 

His signings have been unbelievable -- he has such star power in attracting these people. But I haven't seen anything outstanding about him as a coach yet. Tactically, I think he's naive (the wing backs bombing on and expecting the CMs to fill in was exposed time after time last season) and hasn't showed much ability to reflect on his own decisions (instead of blaming the sh*t* application of others). And other than JJ (who may have been on the up anyway), I can't see a player who has accelerated their development under SG. He needs to show that he can attract these superb players and develop them, otherwise he's going down the route of managers from days-gone-by where your existing players' values drop like a stone. This doesn't accord with the model that Purslow and co have tried to put in place.

 

It's a weird balancing act: ironically, I think DS had the combination of being a paternal figure as well as someone who was interested in the more modern technical aspects of the game. SG is far more traditional in his football values, rigid in his style and is seemingly quite aloof from the players, but he's undeniably a star. If you're a youngster, he must be quite awe inspiring. If you're an established player who doesn't fit into his mould, it must be frustrating. 

 

From a fan perspective, I find SG quite frustrating. I want to buy into his vision and I actually like his arrogance (we've needed it for a while), but I'm not entirely convinced he has the wherewithal as a coach to get it done without blowing up the entire squad. 

 

Thinking about what you said, it almost feels like a Gerrard & Smith combo would work amazingly well.   Gerrard attracts the players, Dean Smith does the man management, Beale/Critchley does the tactical training.    Yes, i'm kind of talking nonsense, but just imagine.

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

1 minute ago, ender4 said:

Thinking about what you said, it almost feels like a Gerrard & Smith combo would work amazingly well.   Gerrard attracts the players, Dean Smith does the man management, Beale/Critchley does the tactical training.    Yes, i'm kind of talking nonsense, but just imagine.

It's an interesting thought experiment that I hadn't considered. Like 'forced celebrity breeding; on Alan Partridge.

 

Thinking about it, beyond observing some actual coaching, I think this is what JT was for. Let DS & co do the coaching and the man management. Let JT be there as a sort of totem. 

[Tom13]

22 minutes ago, ender4 said:

We pretty much know that NSWE and Purslow expect 7th this season.   

So their thinking will be can Gerrard get 7th or not?  If not, cut losses sooner rather than later.    It's a gamble to keep him and a gamble to sack him.   

29 games (2/3 of a season) into Gerrard's reign and they will be asking whether he has improved Villa on the pitch, both in results and tactically and by coaching of individual players. 

After 29 games the answer if currently a resounding no. 

Lets say he wins 4 out of the next 10 games.  Even that only makes his record for Villa average over a whole season (39 games by then). 

 He now needs a massive swing in his favour before the world cup to be able to salvage his managerial career at Villa.

Who's dropping out of the top 7 for us to get in there though?

[sharkyvilla]

We're paying Gerrard £5m a year and we all think he needs certain jobs delegated to other people because he isn't up to it.  Such a colossal waste of money.  

[Anything11]

9 minutes ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

I'm afraid his man management is failing him. As a player, he was the sort of person who would boost his own morale. He thinks every player is (or should be) like this. There was an interview with (I think) Ollie last season where the interviewer asked what Gerrard had said to him. Ollie said something along the lines of 'not much'. SG expects a certain temperament -- I think this is what he means when he says about our 'identity' or 'brand -- and he wants rid if he doesn't see it (hello bomb squad).

 

I'm imagining the conversation he had with Mings. And then the one he has had post-Saturday with McGinn. I cannot imagine a scenario where he was able to deliver the news diplomatically. Mind, if his decision works, he'll look like a genius. Unfortunately, if it doesn't, he will have destroyed the morale of two longstanding players (and the knock-on effect it will have on others that are close to them). 

 

His signings have been unbelievable -- he has such star power in attracting these people. But I haven't seen anything outstanding about him as a coach yet. Tactically, I think he's naive (the wing backs bombing on and expecting the CMs to fill in was exposed time after time last season) and hasn't showed much ability to reflect on his own decisions (instead of blaming the sh*t* application of others). And other than JJ (who may have been on the up anyway), I can't see a player who has accelerated their development under SG. He needs to show that he can attract these superb players and develop them, otherwise he's going down the route of managers from days-gone-by where your existing players' values drop like a stone. This doesn't accord with the model that Purslow and co have tried to put in place.

 

It's a weird balancing act: ironically, I think DS had the combination of being a paternal figure as well as someone who was interested in the more modern technical aspects of the game. SG is far more traditional in his football values, rigid in his style and is seemingly quite aloof from the players, but he's undeniably a star. If you're a youngster, he must be quite awe inspiring. If you're an established player who doesn't fit into his mould, it must be frustrating. 

 

From a fan perspective, I find SG quite frustrating. I want to buy into his vision and I actually like his arrogance (we've needed it for a while), but I'm not entirely convinced he has the wherewithal as a coach to get it done without blowing up the entire squad. 

 

Great post. I particularly agree with that last point -  also can't help but think that if he does manage to get it right the potential for something great is there.

[Tom13]

9 minutes ago, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

Mind, if his decision works, he'll look like a genius.

Considering the player he's made captain shouldn't be anywhere near the XI, and lacks leadership qualities, his decision ain't gonna work.

[calcifer]

Just now, Tom13 said:

Who's dropping out of the top 7 for us to get in there though?

We are not getting top 7 with Gerrard. We have a good squad that could challenge for 7th but never gonna happen. Gerrard will continue to pick his mates! Lose against Everton and the nuts will start falling off the wheels, lose the next 2 after that and the wheels will be off and rolling down the road!! Would Purslow sack him? I doubt it. Let's get used to Gerrard as Villa Manager for the foeceeable! 

[Thug]

 

2 minutes ago, calcifer said:

We are not getting top 7 with Gerrard. We have a good squad that could challenge for 7th but never gonna happen. Gerrard will continue to pick his mates! Lose against Everton and the nuts will start falling off the wheels, lose the next 2 after that and the wheels will be off and rolling down the road!! Would Purslow sack him? I doubt it. Let's get used to Gerrard as Villa Manager for the foeceeable! 

Purslow will be worried about his own post if we lose the next one…

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Thug

[daft]

9 minutes ago, calcifer said:

We are not getting top 7 with Gerrard. We have a good squad that could challenge for 7th but never gonna happen. Gerrard will continue to pick his mates! Lose against Everton and the nuts will start falling off the wheels, lose the next 2 after that and the wheels will be off and rolling down the road!! Would Purslow sack him? I doubt it. Let's get used to Gerrard as Villa Manager for the foeceeable! 

Do we actually have the squad for it though? I feel we are slightly ove-rating our lads?

[nick76]

12 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

We're paying Gerrard £5m a year and we all think he needs certain jobs delegated to other people because he isn't up to it.  Such a colossal waste of money.  

Amazing that he’s already earned £3.75m from us but it’s too early to judge him

Football still continues to amaze me daily with the money flying around.

I know we shouldn’t take money into consideration as it is football and a different world to our world but it’s still mad that somebody has already earnt that amount from a company but some think it’s too early to judge.

[ender4]

17 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Who's dropping out of the top 7 for us to get in there though?

I couldn't care less who it is. NSWE want 7th and Europe.  They are providing the funds to make it achievable.  The rest is up to the manager and Purslow to find us the right manager to make it happen.

For that to happen, we need our manager to slighly over-achieve with the squad we currently have.  So push our (roughly) 9th place quality squad to be 2 positions better.  That needs excellent tactics and coaching to make them better than they are.