The Fun Factory Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, CarryOnVilla said: Why is he still here… what’s keeping him here? £6 million per year....and the compensation when he gets sacked off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StanBalaban Posted October 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: One of the greatest unsolved football mysteries will be how we were playing like this, and what happened to Gerrard-ball. We haven't seen this for nigh-on 10 months. Michael Beale. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thug Posted October 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: One of the greatest unsolved football mysteries will be how we were playing like this, and what happened to Gerrard-ball. We haven't seen this for nigh-on 10 months. That’s not Gerrard-ball That’s Buendia-ball. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphouneso Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Keyblade said: One of the greatest unsolved football mysteries will be how we were playing like this, and what happened to Gerrard-ball. We haven't seen this for nigh-on 10 months. Might have something to do with the no.10 in that video spending most of those 10 months on the bench. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: £6 million per year....and the compensation when he gets sacked off. NSWE: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 United were really struggling at that time and there was a ridiculous amount of space and time in the middle of the park. We still couldn’t score though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: United were really struggling at that time and there was a ridiculous amount of space and time in the middle of the park. We still couldn’t score though. It wasn't just United, we played like that often between November - January. And then after that, nothing. Coutinho's debut was probably the last time I remember us playing like this (ironically against United as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Thug said: That’s not Gerrard-ball That’s Buendia-ball. Correlation isn't causation and all that, but we pretty much stopped playing like this once he was benched for 75% of the time in favour of Coutinho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 40 minutes ago, Keyblade said: One of the greatest unsolved football mysteries will be how we were playing like this, and what happened to Gerrard-ball. We haven't seen this for nigh-on 10 months. Players aren't good enough. Wait.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Correlation isn't causation and all that, but we pretty much stopped playing like this once he was benched for 75% of the time in favour of Coutinho. Exactly. People also need to realise that dropping 1 player for another doesn’t just affect the player on the bench. It affects them all, they can all see it. They are asking themselves what’s the point and that the manager doesn’t have the balls to do a proper job of make big calls. The opposite also has the opposite affect. Drop the mega money player to the bench and they all know that nobody is safe. Play well you’ll be rewarded. No matter what you’re earning you’ll be benched if you don’t perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 55 minutes ago, Keyblade said: One of the greatest unsolved football mysteries will be how we were playing like this, and what happened to Gerrard-ball. We haven't seen this for nigh-on 10 months. Beale ball he means? People do realize Gerrard doesn't do any of the coaching right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 52 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: £6 million per year....and the compensation when he gets sacked off. A drop in the ocean compared to if we get relegated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Pinebro said: Beale ball he means? People do realize Gerrard doesn't do any of the coaching right? We were crap while Beale was still here as well. This was in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 46 minutes ago, Keyblade said: One of the greatest unsolved football mysteries will be how we were playing like this, and what happened to Gerrard-ball. We haven't seen this for nigh-on 10 months. I can think of a few factors: This was an FA Cup 3rd round game against an underperforming Utd side We lost 1-0 McGinn's form hadn't completely dropped off a cliff We only played one "10" (Buendia) who covers a lot of ground, rather than a lazy 10 who doesn't (Coutinho) or two 10s which we know just doesn't work Edited highlight reels make everyone look world class - some of these touches were a bit lucky Michael Beale (QPR currently 1 point off top in Championship, and he's being linked with a Premier League job already) What is clear, though, is that everyone was playing with confidence here, and that that has now disappeared from the squad. It's probably a combination of factors. Gerrard wasn't getting the results he wanted so has regressed to more and more direct, "moments of magic" football, rather than trusting a system (this is why the Arteta comparisons are flat wrong btw). He's also made unforced errors in terms of team morale... dropping players when they perform... the Mings/McGinn captaincy debacle... calling players out publicly, and just the relentless tinkering with the team which means they don't really know what they're doing from week to week. I think we're probably too far down the road now to fix it, especially with Kamara and Carlos out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I can think of a few factors: This was an FA Cup 3rd round game against an underperforming Utd side We lost 1-0 McGinn's form hadn't completely dropped off a cliff We only played one "10" (Buendia) who covers a lot of ground, rather than a lazy 10 who doesn't (Coutinho) or two 10s which we know just doesn't work Edited highlight reels make everyone look world class - some of these touches were a bit lucky Michael Beale (QPR currently 1 point off top in Championship, and he's being linked with a Premier League job already) What is clear, though, is that everyone was playing with confidence here, and that that has now disappeared from the squad. It's probably a combination of factors. Gerrard wasn't getting the results he wanted so has regressed to more and more direct, "moments of magic" football, rather than trusting a system (this is why the Arteta comparisons are flat wrong btw). He's also made unforced errors in terms of team morale... dropping players when they perform... the Mings/McGinn captaincy debacle... calling players out publicly, and just the relentless tinkering with the team which means they don't really know what they're doing from week to week. I think we're probably too far down the road now to fix it, especially with Kamara and Carlos out. This was just one example with highlights, we played similarly in many games around that time (City at home and United in the league the week after that clip come to mind). After that, it was gone. The timing of it is weird too, he wasn't really under much pressure either. It just slowly devolved into Lambert-ball, and then Bruce-ball this season. But Beale was still here last season when things started going to shit. Only theory I have is the shoehorning of Coutinho into the team at the expense of any chemistry or players in good form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: One of the greatest unsolved football mysteries will be how we were playing like this, and what happened to Gerrard-ball. We haven't seen this for nigh-on 10 months. A combination of Beale, who did the training, leaving. I know that Beale was here during the downturn in form as well, but he's an assistant at the end of the day. As all of us on the job knows, you can be the best assistant but still be limited by your boss. Buendia out for Coutinho. This dead horse is beaten and mutilated, but the difference is stark. Everyone in decent form. United were awful. We still lost the game. One of the things that's super evident even in this highlight reel video is that even then, the build up was slow. There were a few moments that broke through the lines, but despite the pretty play - it was still mostly in front of the defense. When your build up is slow and you let the defenders get set, you have to be absolutely PERFECT in execution. How many times is that going to happen? When's the last time we scored a jammy goal (Douglas Luiz corners not counting)? Every goal has to be a work of an art and we are not City/Arsenal that can just dissect opponents in a low block. Even if they were imitating Liverpool - look how they score a lot of their goals, or even their goal from the weekend for example. Stretching the defense vertically and horizontally. Long balls behind with pace and power, not two diminutive number 10s looking up and seeing just Watkins in front of them. The system is flawed in the prem. The in-game management is non-existent because of the lack of understanding from point A. And here we are - looking "good" occasionally against the top 6 side because we don't have the ball - and absolutely atrocious when forced to have it. Edited October 17, 2022 by DJBOB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: This was just one example with highlights, we played similarly in many games around that time (City at home and United in the league the week after that clip come to mind). After that, it was gone. The timing of it is weird too, he wasn't really under much pressure either. It just slowly devolved into Lambert-ball, and then Bruce-ball this season. But Beale was still here last season when things started going to shit. Only theory I have is the shoehorning of Coutinho into the team at the expense of any chemistry or players in good form. I think Coutinho (and McGinn) could be a big part the problem. Coutinho is a luxury player, whereas Buendia is a modern 10 who does the hard work. But what it really comes down to with Gerrard for me is that he doesn't reward good performances or punish bad performances. He picks like 5 or 6 players who are undroppable, and then the rest seem to be chosen at random. That's always going to be bad for team morale and leads players to feel they don't have anything to prove because it'll make no difference anyway. We look like a team who are frustrated. I don't think it's that the players dislike Gerrard particularly, just that they don't feel like they're going into each game with a clear plan and in-form side. He's not enabling partnerships to develop. If you think back to the Smith days, we'd have Mings, Targett and Grealish linking up down the left every single week. It starts to become second nature. I don't really see any of that in the Gerrard era. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I think Coutinho (and McGinn) could be a big part the problem. Coutinho is a luxury player, whereas Buendia is a modern 10 who does the hard work. But what it really comes down to with Gerrard for me is that he doesn't reward good performances or punish bad performances. He picks like 5 or 6 players who are undroppable, and then the rest seem to be chosen at random. That's always going to be bad for team morale and leads players to feel they don't have anything to prove because it'll make no difference anyway. We look like a team who are frustrated. I don't think it's that the players dislike Gerrard particularly, just that they don't feel like they're going into each game with a clear plan and in-form side. He's not enabling partnerships to develop. If you think back to the Smith days, we'd have Mings, Targett and Grealish linking up down the left every single week. It starts to become second nature. I don't really see any of that in the Gerrard era. Agree with all of this. One thing that Smith did consistently well (apart from 1 instance I can remember with El Ghazi and Barkley) was that he picked players who were in form. If a player forced their way into the team by their performances off the bench or because of starting games due to injuries to others, he gave them the shirt and let them keep it. That bred healthy competition for places (problem was we didn't have the squad strength at the time to benefit from it). But with Gerrard, certain players are just undroppable no matter how poorly they play or how well their replacement plays, or both (Coutinho and Buendia case in point). I would guess that affects morale. Also, on the partnerships, I think it was something we genuinely worked on in training. It was all very well rehearsed. You often heard Smith talking about overloads on the sides etc, and it was evident on the pitch. Right now, every time these players step onto the pitch together it looks like it's for the very first time. I would guess it's because of a lack of coaching of strategies. It's pretty much identical to what we were seeing under Bruce, same symptoms, everything. As soon as a proper coach came in we saw the improvement immediately with the same group of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: One of the greatest unsolved football mysteries will be how we were playing like this, and what happened to Gerrard-ball. We haven't seen this for nigh-on 10 months. Proves to me the players have the quality, just needs unlocking by that new manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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