Steven Gerrard

[DaveAV1]

41 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

in fact his record against the top 8 is: Played 9, Won 0, Drew 1, Lost 8.

How have we only played 9 games against the top 8? I know we haven’t turned up in a few but come on surely even played 15 with 1 to go on Sunday?

[CVByrne]

46 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

For everyone banging on about that table, there's a decent chance we will be 11th in it by the end of Sunday. 

And football doesn't work like that. You can't say he's 8th now so over a whole season we'd finish 8th. People used to do that shit with selective periods of Scott Hogan's goal scoring. 

I'd say it's pretty conclusive we will finish 14th. I doubt many predicted that when he came, I doubt our owners or even Gerrard thought we'd finish there when he came. I highly doubt sticking with Smith would have seen us finish much different. 

But there are positives. We know we are going to bring in big name signings and Gerrard is part of that. Mcginn has been overall a much better player with Gerrard. Digne looks quality and Cash has won player of the year under Gerrard. 

He's giving young kids a chance and Ramsay has had a break out season under him. 

I have my doubts still, I was hoping for more. I was hoping he'd really show us that we'll make huge strides next season. But he has to have more time and be allowed to sign more players. 

I do agree with the culture and the mentality needing to change. We haven't been fighting for Europe since MON. 

I'm excited about next season. 

 

 

I agree with a lot of this. I think Gerrard has a style he wants to play, a way he see's the game. I think that's important to take us forward. These types of managers need time with their players for this to bed in. Some of the current squad are up to speed on this now. I criticised the ultra attacking fullbacks at points earlier this year but I think Gerrard and his team should be happy with the output from Digne and Cash. We look a threat from them in wide areas. The threat they now pose will be scouted by opposing managers and that means extra space centrally will become available for the two 10s system.

I also think JJ and McGinn have learnt well too about what the 8 roles in the system are. The defensive responsibility to cover for their full backs. People often criticise McGinn but he is a player who is getting specific instructions from Gerrard for certain games and thus is one of those "glue" midfielders who sacrifice themselves for the team. I think he's one of the on pitch leaders too. JJ / Luiz are quite in there. I think we just need an improvement on Sanson in the 8 position to come in and bring the real competition for places there which will push JJ / McGinn on. 

I think Mings has been good under Gerrard too. He's taken on a lot in a short space of time. Taking the responsibility to play out from the back. He's also had Konsa being out of form this season to contend with and Martinez too I think has had a poor season when compared to last season. He's also had a good attacking output and I think his number of mistakes is reduced vs under Smith. The lack of a CDM has also left out CBs exposed in transitional play too often this season. 

What hasn't worked is our chance creation. We are 13th in xG stat since Gerrard has taken over. We've scored more than our xG by 4.32. xG I think is a really good stat to measure the high quality chances a team create over a season (or 26 games in this sample). A big reason for that is the two 10 system where it provides a big defensive advantage with blocking central areas out of possession but it hasn't created the chances and we don't have a lethal finisher in Watkins who can score in those tight spaces and Ings hasn't been firing in front of goal as of late. When we've played with the two CFs we've created a lot more chances (we're 7th in xG since the Brighton game we went two up top in)

We've also failed to get the balance in midfield, the midfield 3 and also in the two 10 spots. The lack of a top class CDM is the problem we all know. But how the front three can work with two 10s is still unclear to me. I just can't think of a set up that provides balance there without the level of passing and movement we see from the top sides. One of the 10s being a 10+ goals a season player able to switch to CF or 10 in game. Bailey I was hoping might be able to do that. Who knows. 

The final issue is the errors. They're so costly and they're spread throughout the team. I agree with Gerrard we lack the characters and winning mentality to not let setbacks affect us and to recover from them. I do think quality attacking play takes time to develop and a pre season will hopefully help a lot here. Yes we've ended 14th this season but only 3 or 4 points more would have us in top half. I do feel we've had more bad luck than good and if we'd had rub of the green a little more we'd be further up the table. We've been competitive in every game this season which has to be pleasing, even the 4-0 loss to spurs. 

I am anxious as the success of this team next season relies so much on recruitment this summer. The managers like Gerrard who have a way they see the game and want to play need the recruitment to bring in players who fit the system. Targett for example would never have worked in this system. Digne suits it so well. People just need to look to Klopp and Guardiolas average / poor first seasons in charge to be positive about the strides we can make. I can see 3 / 4 first team players being brought in this summer, adding to Digne / Coutinho that's 50%-60% of our outfield team are Gerrards signings. While we know JJ / Cash are 100% players he is happy with so that's like 80% of his first team are "Gerrard" men. 

My hope is the right CB and CDM can free up our 8s to get more involved in attacks and provide more of a goal threat vs how we've played this season. For me it really comes down to our recruitment. Big summer ahead

[Blasterpocket68]

We need to give him some time , can’t judge on this season alone comparing SG to DS is ridiculous . 
he will be judged on next season and he has lot to do . I think we have a lot half decent midfielders that simply  don’t fit he needs to hopefully resolve that over the coming weeks . Might be some difficult decisions to be made. 

[ferguson1]

Think Gerrard will be quite ruthless this summer, one or two shock departures and certainly some exciting incoming players.

Our weak underbelly (central midfield) will be much improved and a few further tweaks to the side/squad, will see much improved results.

I’m honestly optimistic. There’s signs of a really good side coming together.

[The_Steve]

It’s easy to overlook that Smith’s tenure ended because he got 36 points from 40, not a 5 game losing streak. Gerrard came in after a farcical pre-season, covid, and had to work with a squad that wasn’t his. He made some astute signings but no manager should be judged this early. It’s very obvious that some players have hit their ceilings. We are a couple of players away from being a much better squad. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by The_Steve

[VillaParkAvenue]

7 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I agree with a lot of this. I think Gerrard has a style he wants to play, a way he see's the game. I think that's important to take us forward. These types of managers need time with their players for this to bed in. Some of the current squad are up to speed on this now. I criticised the ultra attacking fullbacks at points earlier this year but I think Gerrard and his team should be happy with the output from Digne and Cash. We look a threat from them in wide areas. The threat they now pose will be scouted by opposing managers and that means extra space centrally will become available for the two 10s system.

I also think JJ and McGinn have learnt well too about what the 8 roles in the system are. The defensive responsibility to cover for their full backs. People often criticise McGinn but he is a player who is getting specific instructions from Gerrard for certain games and thus is one of those "glue" midfielders who sacrifice themselves for the team. I think he's one of the on pitch leaders too. JJ / Luiz are quite in there. I think we just need an improvement on Sanson in the 8 position to come in and bring the real competition for places there which will push JJ / McGinn on. 

I think Mings has been good under Gerrard too. He's taken on a lot in a short space of time. Taking the responsibility to play out from the back. He's also had Konsa being out of form this season to contend with and Martinez too I think has had a poor season when compared to last season. He's also had a good attacking output and I think his number of mistakes is reduced vs under Smith. The lack of a CDM has also left out CBs exposed in transitional play too often this season. 

What hasn't worked is our chance creation. We are 13th in xG stat since Gerrard has taken over. We've scored more than our xG by 4.32. xG I think is a really good stat to measure the high quality chances a team create over a season (or 26 games in this sample). A big reason for that is the two 10 system where it provides a big defensive advantage with blocking central areas out of possession but it hasn't created the chances and we don't have a lethal finisher in Watkins who can score in those tight spaces and Ings hasn't been firing in front of goal as of late. When we've played with the two CFs we've created a lot more chances (we're 7th in xG since the Brighton game we went two up top in)

We've also failed to get the balance in midfield, the midfield 3 and also in the two 10 spots. The lack of a top class CDM is the problem we all know. But how the front three can work with two 10s is still unclear to me. I just can't think of a set up that provides balance there without the level of passing and movement we see from the top sides. One of the 10s being a 10+ goals a season player able to switch to CF or 10 in game. Bailey I was hoping might be able to do that. Who knows. 

The final issue is the errors. They're so costly and they're spread throughout the team. I agree with Gerrard we lack the characters and winning mentality to not let setbacks affect us and to recover from them. I do think quality attacking play takes time to develop and a pre season will hopefully help a lot here. Yes we've ended 14th this season but only 3 or 4 points more would have us in top half. I do feel we've had more bad luck than good and if we'd had rub of the green a little more we'd be further up the table. We've been competitive in every game this season which has to be pleasing, even the 4-0 loss to spurs. 

I am anxious as the success of this team next season relies so much on recruitment this summer. The managers like Gerrard who have a way they see the game and want to play need the recruitment to bring in players who fit the system. Targett for example would never have worked in this system. Digne suits it so well. People just need to look to Klopp and Guardiolas average / poor first seasons in charge to be positive about the strides we can make. I can see 3 / 4 first team players being brought in this summer, adding to Digne / Coutinho that's 50%-60% of our outfield team are Gerrards signings. While we know JJ / Cash are 100% players he is happy with so that's like 80% of his first team are "Gerrard" men. 

My hope is the right CB and CDM can free up our 8s to get more involved in attacks and provide more of a goal threat vs how we've played this season. For me it really comes down to our recruitment. Big summer ahead

If Gerrard decides to play both Coutinho and Buendia as 10s, they will have to be reliable goal scorers as well. Personally I believe we need to make more runs and stretch defences, while having two number 10s mainly looking to play through balls risk being a bit of a waste.

[DaveAV1]

20 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

If Gerrard decides to play both Coutinho and Buendia as 10s, they will have to be reliable goal scorers as well. Personally I believe we need to make more runs and stretch defences, while having two number 10s mainly looking to play through balls risk being a bit of a waste.

Agreed and I think all the forward players need to score a decent amount of goals. The days of the 20 goal cf are no longer with us, although one would be nice! 

[nick76]

1 hour ago, Tommo_b said:

Plenty of managers have come in and not gotten this fabled “new manager bounce”, personally feel the first 6 games shouldn’t be discredited because of it. 

But if the next 20 games don’t reflect those first six games there is a reason to look at separately sometimes.  Those first six games we were impressive even when we lost.  

When I watched Newcastle the other night with the intensity, pressing, ideas and confidence, that was us the first six games.  It reminded me of that time.  The last 20 games has been different to that overall, that’s why I worry that initial period was a new manager bounce only.  

Even excluding the 23 points from those games which might be from 21 games by Sunday, the performances have been not good.  

Anyway the season is almost over, we start again next season and hopefully things picked up with the preseason, new players and more time.  No excuses next season.

[VillaFaninLondon]

36 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

How have we only played 9 games against the top 8? I know we haven’t turned up in a few but come on surely even played 15 with 1 to go on Sunday?

Eh? I'm talking about Gerrard's record against the top 8 since November. 

[The Fun Factory]

I might be feeling a bit of a miserable git after a lack of sleep from last night  but at present I can't take too many positives from last night. Our home form has been absolutely dire.  2 wins in the last 11. It is seems a strange disconnect between the performances and the fact we are selling out every home game and have this massive season ticket waiting list. So we get a big increase to watch next season after all of that.

6 home wins is Lambert territory. In fact if we don't avoid defeat on Sunday our final position in the league will be just  one place and four points better than Lambert's first season. And I don't remember this enthusiasm then! Yes we do have ambitious owners but we seem to be as far from the elite as we have ever have been really and now with Newcastle it will get that just bit harder. At present I just think it is going to be really hard to finish above 10th next season. Sorry to be a debbie downer on this.

[hippo]

9 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Don't get me wrong, I get it, it's a bit weird and can feel off if you dwell on it, but in truth, it's probably childish 

How do players who are  lifelong supporters of other clubs, go and play for rivals for example?

I'm sure SG won't be the only Manager who's ever been in this situation, would be interesting to know actually.

How does Deano Manage other clubs against us without batting an eyelid?

The same way if Grealish plays on Sunday, he will have no qualms scoring a hat trick against us 

So yes, it's weird, but that's more an " us " problem, that it is an actual problem. IMO

I'm pretty sure ideally, we'd all want a Villa man/legend to lead us to glory.

To refine the point. We've employed another clubs hero - on the basis he was another clubs hero. 

Had a lesser player won 1 Scottish trophy in 3 years total management experience- safe to say he wouldn't be in the running for the job .

 

[Tommo_b]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

To refine the point. We've employed another clubs hero - on the basis he was another clubs hero. 

Had a lesser player won 1 Scottish trophy in 3 years total management experience- safe to say he wouldn't be in the running for the job .

 

I’d assume it’s because of what he achieved at Rangers and his connections more then he was a hero at another club.

[hippo]

1 hour ago, The_Steve said:

It’s easy to overlook that Smith’s tenure ended because he got 36 points from 40, not a 5 game losing streak. Gerrard came in after a farcical pre-season, covid, and had to work with a squad that wasn’t his. He made some astute signings but no manager should be judged this early. It’s very obvious that some players have hit their ceilings. We are a couple of players away from being a much better squad. 

I'd agree with this. A couple of additions to the existing squad and we'd have a pretty good squad. 

Problem for me is if Stevie G goes for a wholesale rebuild - with for example - Ming's/Mcginn/Watkins moving on.

And of course Stevie G has to get performances out of the players he brings in.

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I’d assume it’s because of what he achieved at Rangers and his connections more then he was a hero at another club.

1 trophy in 3 seasons in Scotland - a league where Livingston & st mirren win trophies .

It's more the connections with Purslow - who is a big Liverpool fan 

[lexicon]

Just now, hippo said:

1 trophy in 3 seasons in Scotland - a league where Livingston & st mirren win trophies .

It's more the connections with Purslow - who is a big Liverpool fan 

It's more his name and reputation as a player than him being a Liverpool hero so to speak, which is what I think you're getting at.

[The_Steve]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

I'd agree with this. A couple of additions to the existing squad and we'd have a pretty good squad. 

Problem for me is if Stevie G goes for a wholesale rebuild - with for example - Ming's/Mcginn/Watkins moving on.

And of course Stevie G has to get performances out of the players he brings in.

If Gerrard cannot get the best out of the players he brings in and matches the ambitions of his statements then he deserves to be sacked. Let’s hope it works out though. I feel we are in for a fascinating and exciting summer. 

[The Fun Factory]

It does help having a full pre season and starting in August though in fairness to Gerrard. Viera has had the time to change the style of Palace's play because of that. I would like to see similar e changes for 22/23 for us.

[lexicon]

2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

To go from 16th when he took on the job to 14th when the season finishes is really very little progress and you wonder whether the owners will keep faith in him if we don't start next season really well.

 

So many dropped points this season to poor or average teams, especially at home - Watford, Brentford, Palace, Burnley, Leeds. Gerrard was in charge for most of them. 

 

We dropped points to weaker teams under Smith last season too but at least we beat a lot of the better sides. Gerrard has taken a solitary point from the top 8 this season, in fact his record against the top 8 is: Played 9, Won 0, Drew 1, Lost 8. So his form against teams at both ends of the table doesn't read well. 

 

He really hasn't done a good job at all and is very lucky that he is now going to be backed financially in the summer given how mediocre results have been under him. 

Agree with this - the excuses are starting to rack up as to why we didn't win X game or lost against Y and they're wearing thin. 

[ferguson1]

We’ve gambled on an elite player becoming an elite manager. I understand why we’ve done this because of where we were last October time.

Just hope the gamble pays off. Gerrard certainly strikes me as the type that’ll give it everything in his power to succeed though.

[The Fun Factory]

He talks a good game for but next season I want more of a don't tell me-show me approach. I agee most of things he says after the match but so far not really consistent improvement,