TRO Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 22 hours ago, hippo said: I agree. build from the back. But I think where we disagree is how to go about that. To me you can tighten up at the back with the existing players and TBF this is what Stevie G did in the first few games. But since then weve brought an attacking FB and encouraged Mings to bomb forward. From your reasoning - you seem to think we can't build from back without new players ? - Presumably that means replacements for Mings/Konsa ? - Where are players superior to those coming from ? - what would be the likely destination of those two departing ? We don't need a rebuild - we need to add to what we have - but by the seasons end the pressure for a clearout will be so great that the fact that our on field organsation is plummeting will be conveniently forgotten - and the Stevie G juggernaut gallops to its sad conclusion. Sorry Hippo, but you last line, which you was anxiously building towards, spoiled the rest of the post. While we have a defensive issue in midfield, we will all continue to make assumptions on our players.....I am not suggesting replacing Mings and Konsa, but if alternatives were available, I would certainly give it consideration.....What it Niklas Sule became available or Sven Botman.....your suggestion of being unable to replace them, is pie in the sky.....we have few players who are irreplaceable. I didn't say we do need a rebuild, my concern is how easy we are to play against.....and fixing the things that makes us harder to beat. SG is not a juggernaut, he is a young up an coming manager, with the right credentials.....I think he needs the right players to make us harder to beat, and yes, I am in doubt he can do that, without the right personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TRO said: Sorry Hippo, but you last line, which you was anxiously building towards, spoiled the rest of the post. While we have a defensive issue in midfield, we will all continue to make assumptions on our players.....I am not suggesting replacing Mings and Konsa, but if alternatives were available, I would certainly give it consideration.....What it Niklas Sule became available or Sven Botman.....your suggestion of being unable to replace them, is pie in the sky.....we have few players who are irreplaceable. I didn't say we do need a rebuild, my concern is how easy we are to play against.....and fixing the things that makes us harder to beat. SG is not a juggernaut, he is a young up an coming manager, with the right credentials.....I think he needs the right players to make us harder to beat, and yes, I am in doubt he can do that, without the right personnel. Well Everton are 2-0 up against Leeds. Perhaps we should swap our defenders for there's ? Sure Konsa & Ming's are replaceable. That's easy - replacing them with a better calibre - not so easy. For the record I don't they will both depart this summer. I can't believe a whole defence of internationals (Konsa excepted) are so reliant on this mythical defensive midfielder to function. I didn't mean Stevie G was a juggernaut himself. I was using that phrase to the extent that villa are all in on Stevie G coming good. Edited February 12, 2022 by hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, hippo said: Well Everton are 2-0 up against Leeds. Perhaps we should swap our defenders for there's ? Sure Konsa & Ming's are replaceable. That's easy - replacing them with a better calibre - not so easy. For the record I don't they will both depart this summer. I can't believe a whole defence of internationals (Konsa excepted) are so reliant on this mythical defensive midfielder to function. I didn't mean Stevie G was a juggernaut himself. I was using that phrase to the extent that villa are all in on Stevie G coming good. Don't count the fullbacks in Steven's system. Half the time they are beyond the striker, especially Digne. This isn't a criticism, I'm still on the fence personally, but you can't deny we are essentially playing wingers at the fullback positions right now. With this system only Ramsey out of our current 3 is really fit for it. McGinn doesn't have the defensive consistency and he is very loose with possession. Douglas doesn't have the athleticism needed to cover quick runs from wingers and forwards. If we are to persist with this system then we either need the above players to raise their game or we will need to seek replacements. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 It's still very early days so it is naïve to criticise or praise Gerrard too wildly at this stage. He hasn't yet had a preseason and only been in the job three months. I was very critical of Smith especially towards the end but that is because he failed to properly implement a consistent playing style and failed to get both results and performances without Jack Grealish despite spending 350m. I'll admit, from what I have seen of Gerrard so far I've not been bowled over and I wasn't bowled over by the appointment. But I think there have been positive and negative things so far. Positives 17 points from 11 games this season compared to 10 points from 11 games for Smith (both probably played similar level of difficulty opponent too) Bringing in high profile players like Coutinho and Digne which probably wouldn't have happened under Smith (certainly not Coutinho anyhow) No nonsense attitude to the media and refreshingly honest and to the point unlike Smith was (particularly in relation to injuries/absences to key players) Negatives We still have the same issues keeping the ball and retaining possession and a dominant style of play (similar to that at Brighton under Potter) is still lacking - of course this may change over the time and it's vital that it does because it's holding us back Defensively we have marginally improved but we are still giving away cheap goals on a regular basis The one thing you could say about Gerrard is that at Rangers he massively improved the defence in time and he also made them much harder to beat (they went a whole season unbeaten which is pretty damn impressive even if it is a poor standard of league) Therefore, we have to give him a season or 2 to see if he can get us to where we want. European football on a regular basis has to be the aim for this club and if he's well backed in the summer he'll be expected to be pushing for that as early as next season. Time will tell if he can deliver. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 12, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said: Don't count the fullbacks in Steven's system. Half the time they are beyond the striker, especially Digne. This isn't a criticism, I'm still on the fence personally, but you can't deny we are essentially playing wingers at the fullback positions right now. With this system only Ramsey out of our current 3 is really fit for it. McGinn doesn't have the defensive consistency and he is very loose with possession. Douglas doesn't have the athleticism needed to cover quick runs from wingers and forwards. If we are to persist with this system then we either need the above players to raise their game or we will need to seek replacements. This, I don't understand why people are ignoring the fact we are playing with a 3 man defence with our fullbacks being right up front. We are then relying on Ramsey and McGinn to cover for them. Dougie staying largely in the middle. If we play the same system against Newcastle and let a few goals in then questions need to be asked, why are we are persisting with a system that we haven't got the players for, wait until we have a decent DM and then try it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said: Don't count the fullbacks in Steven's system. Half the time they are beyond the striker, especially Digne. This isn't a criticism, I'm still on the fence personally, but you can't deny we are essentially playing wingers at the fullback positions right now. With this system only Ramsey out of our current 3 is really fit for it. McGinn doesn't have the defensive consistency and he is very loose with possession. Douglas doesn't have the athleticism needed to cover quick runs from wingers and forwards. If we are to persist with this system then we either need the above players to raise their game or we will need to seek replacements. Agree with your prognosis. Obviously Stevie has to mould the team as he sees fit - that's his choice. There are teams winning games not playing that system though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Just now, tinker said: This, I don't understand why people are ignoring the fact we are playing with a 3 man defence with our fullbacks being right up front. We are then relying on Ramsey and McGinn to cover for them. Dougie staying largely in the middle. If we play the same system against Newcastle and let a few goals in then questions need to be asked, why are we are persisting with a system that we haven't got the players for, wait until we have a decent DM and then try it. Exactly. We are going headlong into this blueprint as though we can't possibly achieve success through any other formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 6 hours ago, tezzaleed said: I know we're lucky to have Gerrard and I fully expect to have a measure of success but does anyone else get frustrated with our lack of width under Gerrard. granted buendia and coutinho are starting to play through teams but there is no room for the likes of Bailey in a Gerrard team. I’m happy with Gerrard but to say we are lucky to have him is a bridge too far. He’s lucky to have landed such a high profile coaching roll so early in his career. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 36 minutes ago, hippo said: Well Everton are 2-0 up against Leeds. Perhaps we should swap our defenders for there's ? Sure Konsa & Ming's are replaceable. That's easy - replacing them with a better calibre - not so easy. For the record I don't they will both depart this summer. I can't believe a whole defence of internationals (Konsa excepted) are so reliant on this mythical defensive midfielder to function. I didn't mean Stevie G was a juggernaut himself. I was using that phrase to the extent that villa are all in on Stevie G coming good. He's our manager, of course we're all in on him coming good. That's what happens when... you appoint a manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 33 minutes ago, Steero113 said: He's our manager, of course we're all in on him coming good. That's what happens when... you appoint a manager? Sure. My personal feeling is that we have decent players already. But we are all in on Stevie G having a clear out and bringing his own guys in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 51 minutes ago, lexicon said: I'm not sure where I stand on it tbf. On the one hand there's a real chance of getting a European place if we get our act together and start winning games regularly, plus our run-in isn't that bad either, but on the other hand it is a little early to expect us to finish pretty high up the table. I think that in any case, we should be going for it and targeting a top 8 finish or so, but if we fall a little short it won't be the end of the world. Oh absolutely we should be pushing it and im sure Gerrard has high expectations. From a fans POV, I'm prepared to have patience this season. We've had big changes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catanzaro Posted February 13, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 13, 2022 On 11/02/2022 at 17:42, Pongo's Socks said: Just watched the Newcastle presser. Me and the missus came up with a drinking game we're going to play next week based on Gerrards favourite sayings. 'Listen' one sip 'For sure' two sips 'Moving forward' three sips 'That's none of my business' four sips Then the Holy grail 'Yeeeeaaaahhh course' NECK IT! A bit of a wash out on the pre match interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Be nice to have something approaching a midfield at some point this season. Pass along the back then belt it forward for Watkins to fight the defender marking him. We've got no progressive ideas at all. Unable to intelligently retain possession. I don't think we have any game plan or designated style of play. I'm really not seeing Gerrard or his staff implementing anything into this squad other than naming the starting 11 each game. Honestly still think Gerrard is just the king's new clothes. I hope it comes good, I really do but I'm not seeing anything to suggest he's gonna be anything but a run of the mill manager. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newry_Villan Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Not seeing the hype to be honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa 59 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 We're a real shit show today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa 59 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Just now, Villa 59 said: We're a real shit show today Wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Honestly atm we are worse than the sum of our parts, or at least what they should be on paper. We are not a functioning team currently. We seem incapable of getting the ball to our creative players and the midfield doesn't work at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 41 minutes ago, Newry_Villan said: Not seeing the hype to be honest. He's a born winner. You should experience his aura. Rooms stop dead when he walks in. A real man and a fighter. Or some other cliched shite like that. I just want us to start playing better and getting some results. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 (edited) Lost Lost Lost Drew Won Drew Lost Can only beat a managerless Everton in our last 7 games. Not good enough. Edited February 13, 2022 by CVByrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: I just want us to start playing better and getting some results. Don't we all.... I'm not convinced we'll make 40 points come the end of the season. Each game that comes along we look incrementally worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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