Energy Bills

[ender4]

4 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said:

Yeah it's amazing how much renewables is increasing 

Why are we generating much less electricity in total?  With our rising population, surely we need more energy overall not less?

[Genie]

Just now, ender4 said:

Why are we generating much less electricity in total?  With our rising population, surely we need more energy overall not less?

Maybe more energy efficient things like lighting, heating etc (could be wrong, just a guess).

[ender4]

6 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said:

Also hydro, wind, solar and nuclear all reduced production in 2021!

[Mozzavfc]

20 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Why are we generating much less electricity in total?  With our rising population, surely we need more energy overall not less?

We imported more power, so generated less in the uk

Full explanation 

Spoiler

Total electricity generated decreased by 1.4 per cent between 2020 and 2021, in contrast to a 1.1 percent increase in demand. High net imports accounted for the difference, reducing the need for UK-based generation.

The share of generation from renewables decreased from 43.2 per cent in 2020 to 39.7 percent in 2021. This was still the second highest share of renewable generation recorded and came as less favourable weather conditions in 2021 decreased generation from wind, solar and hydro generators. At the same time, generation from nuclear continued its long-term downward trend, with its share decreasing from 16.1 per cent to 14.9 per cent.

Fossil fuel generation shares increased in 2021 to account for the lower renewable and nuclear generation. There was a substantial increase for gas, up from 35.7 per cent to 39.8 per cent. The share of electricity generated from coal in 2021 increased 0.3 percentage points from 2020 to 2.1 per cent, though this was from a low baseline in 2020.

Source

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094025/UK_Energy_in_Brief_2022.pdf

Edited November 8, 2022 by Mozzavfc

[sidcow]

I presume we used less power overall in lockdown. All those shops, offices, factories and restaurants sitting idle. 

[lapal_fan]

The cheapest kWh is the one not used. 

Our demand needs to be reduced, and demand should reduced as more efficient technologies are installed.  Electricity demand will rise as we aim for net zero, because natural gas will become obsolete, but our overall combined demand will drop.

In my job, at a building level, you wouldn't believe how inefficient almost every building in the country is being operated.  I'm talking about buildings with site teams/engineers etc.  Last night I was looking through a Building Management System (BMS) and there was a faulty valve meaning that a space was calling for cooling, but the heater battery was open 10%, meaning there was also heating being called for, because of a valve not being tested. 

That's for one Air Handling Unit (AHU).  There can be 30 AHUs in one building.  The cost for that one valve problem would cost 1000's of kWh's and hundreds if not thousands of pounds in a year and I have no idea how long that has been an issue.  And you see that issue in most buildings.

Then you see things onsite like 70w lamps in plant rooms being left on because the Building Manager is scared of rats.  There could be as many as 20 70w lamps in that room.  That's £6.72 per day if the electric costs 40p/kWh.  Or £2,452.80 a year or 6,132kWh of electricity, or nearly 1,200kgs of Carbon, because a guy can't turn the lights on when he enters a room in case a rat makes him jump.  

If we cut out just the idiocy, we'd save around 15-20% of our demand.  If we operated our buildings efficiently, we'd save a further 10-15%.  But it won't likely happen because it's inconvenient.  

I drive past the multi-storey carpark in Halesowen on any night and every single lamp is on, and they're 70w fluorescents.  It's costing the council probably approaching £10-15k a year to have those lights on, supplying light to an empty car park.  Spend £5-10k and get some sensors installed, job done.  Spend £30k and have LEDs installed, job done.  But it won't happen. 

How many shop or car show rooms do you drive past and see full - or at least - ambient lighting on, even when they're closed?  

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, lapal_fan said:

The cheapest kWh is the one not used. 

Our demand needs to be reduced, and demand should reduced as more efficient technologies are installed.  Electricity demand will rise as we aim for net zero, because natural gas will become obsolete, but our overall combined demand will drop.

In my job, at a building level, you wouldn't believe how inefficient almost every building in the country is being operated.  I'm talking about buildings with site teams/engineers etc.  Last night I was looking through a Building Management System (BMS) and there was a faulty valve meaning that a space was calling for cooling, but the heater battery was open 10%, meaning there was also heating being called for, because of a valve not being tested. 

That's for one Air Handling Unit (AHU).  There can be 30 AHUs in one building.  The cost for that one valve problem would cost 1000's of kWh's and hundreds if not thousands of pounds in a year and I have no idea how long that has been an issue.  And you see that issue in most buildings.

Then you see things onsite like 70w lamps in plant rooms being left on because the Building Manager is scared of rats.  There could be as many as 20 70w lamps in that room.  That's £6.72 per day if the electric costs 40p/kWh.  Or £2,452.80 a year or 6,132kWh of electricity, or nearly 1,200kgs of Carbon, because a guy can't turn the lights on when he enters a room in case a rat makes him jump.  

If we cut out just the idiocy, we'd save around 15-20% of our demand.  If we operated our buildings efficiently, we'd save a further 10-15%.  But it won't likely happen because it's inconvenient.  

I drive past the multi-storey carpark in Halesowen on any night and every single lamp is on, and they're 70w fluorescents.  It's costing the council probably approaching £10-15k a year to have those lights on, supplying light to an empty car park.  Spend £5-10k and get some sensors installed, job done.  Spend £30k and have LEDs installed, job done.  But it won't happen. 

How many shop or car show rooms do you drive past and see full - or at least - ambient lighting on, even when they're closed?  

We have a boring thread you know

[lapal_fan]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

We have a boring thread you know

[ender4]

Apparently a hot water tank insulation jacket can save £100 a year off gas bills.   

Anyone got any idea which one to buy? Does a more expensive or branded one do better than a cheaper one assuming they are the same thickness?

[Genie]

1 minute ago, ender4 said:

Apparently a hot water tank insulation jacket can save £100 a year off gas bills.   

Anyone got any idea which one to buy? Does a more expensive or branded one do better than a cheaper one assuming they are the same thickness?

I assume they vary by model of tank. 

[markavfc40]

Energy price cap to be £3000 from April (for average usage) up from £2500 now. That doesn't take into account that this year there was the £400 energy rebate/support scheme that everyone has received and the £150 council rebate that those in Band D or under received.

For an average user then the increase since the start of the year has been £1200 up to £1950 now (taking into account £400 energy rebate/£150 c/tax rebate) and rising to £3000 in April. A 250% increase in just over a year. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by markavfc40

[sidcow]

15 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Apparently a hot water tank insulation jacket can save £100 a year off gas bills.   

Anyone got any idea which one to buy? Does a more expensive or branded one do better than a cheaper one assuming they are the same thickness?

Make sure you get a good quality one like Berghaus or Canada Goose

[AVFC_Hitz]

30 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Make sure you get a good quality one like Berghaus or Canada Goose

Was thinking mountain warehouse, myself.

[bickster]

53 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Apparently a hot water tank insulation jacket can save £100 a year off gas bills. 

gas water tanks? Do people actually have those?

I've always assumed hot water tanks were electric immersion heaters

[ender4]

8 minutes ago, bickster said:

gas water tanks? Do people actually have those?

I've always assumed hot water tanks were electric immersion heaters

Interesting you ask that. I've always assumed that every house has a hot water tank that is heated by gas. I don't think i know anyone who's hot water tank isn't heated by gas.  

Are you saying there are houses where a hot water tank is heated by electricity? Of course houses where they have solar panels connected to hot water, but just normal houses? Isn't that really expensive to heat?

[bickster]

Just now, ender4 said:

Interesting you ask that. I've always assumed that every house has a hot water tank that is heated by gas. I don't think i know anyone who's hot water tank isn't heated by gas.  

Are you saying there are houses where a hot water tank is heated by electricity? Of course houses where they have solar panels connected to hot water, but just normal houses? Isn't that really expensive to heat?

Combi-boilers not tanks though surely? And I don't see how lagging a combi-boiler does anything

I've honestly never lived in a house with a gas heated tank in the loft. I'm genuinely curious if that is a thing, just because it's something I've never really encountered.

 

[ender4]

Just now, bickster said:

Combi-boilers not tanks though surely? And I don't see how lagging a combi-boiler does anything

I've honestly never lived in a house with a gas heated tank in the loft. I'm genuinely curious if that is a thing, just because it's something I've never really encountered.

 

Not combi boiler, just a standard hot water tank connected to the gas boiler.   

It's so weird, we've both never encountered the opposite of what we have!

I'm going to ask around to see if i'm living in a bubble and just never realised that other houses have hot water heated differently (excluding combi boilers of course).

[sidcow]

Everyone is going to have to get used to having hot water tanks installed again as we move to Heat Pumps as they need a hot water tank.

These days hot water tanks are a different kettle of fish though because they are super insulated (no jackets needed) and under normal water pressure so can for example be situated in a garage rather than a loft.

I believe we might eventually get "combi" Heat Pumps but they're not available right now.

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

Energy price cap to be £3000 from April (for average usage) up from £2500 now. That doesn't take into account that this year there was the £400 energy rebate/support scheme that everyone has received and the £150 council rebate that those in Band D or under received.

For an average user then the increase since the start of the year has been £1200 up to £1950 now (taking into account £400 energy rebate/£150 c/tax rebate) and rising to £3000 in April. A 250% increase in just over a year. 

Thank **** we hopefully wont need our heating by then

Im gonna sit in coffee shops and use their electric i think 

[MakemineVanilla]

On 08/11/2022 at 22:20, ender4 said:

Why are we generating much less electricity in total?  With our rising population, surely we need more energy overall not less?

If it is the unspoken policy of the Government to encourage the public to consume less and to pay more, while leading consumers towards accepting the higher cost of renewables, then it would make sense to lower production to ensure high costs are sustained at a punitive level.

The question is whether the demand for energy fell, after Thatcher destroyed the UK's industrial base, and whether the increase in population of 10 million, since 1990, has made up for that decline.

There are around 15m more vehicles on the roads ( an increase from 20m to 35m) since 1980, which might have shifted the demand away from industry and towards vehicles.