Energy Bills

[foreveryoung]

£2.07 at some motèorway services deisel.

As for deisel being far more expensive that petrol. There are now more deisel vehicles on the road so they will charge more won't they, its the way it works, as with energy prices. 

[Genie]

4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

£2.07 at some motèorway services deisel.

As for deisel being far more expensive that petrol. There are now more deisel vehicles on the road so they will charge more won't they, its the way it works, as with energy prices. 

Usually when something is used more it becomes cheaper (like in the US, “gas” is much cheaper than Diesel).

Here it seems the opposite market forces apply. Diesel also cheaper to produce isn’t it?

[blandy]

16 hours ago, Davkaus said:

Seems like exactly the use case for TRVs, they'd probably pay for themselves within a month with prices at the moment

About a year or two ago I bought some smart TRVs on a deal. You can program them with timings or automations and schedules and temperatures and conditions and stuff, or adjust them from a phone or tablet etc. It just saved running round rooms turning normal TRVs on or off or up and down for empty or soon to be occupied rooms. In pure cost terms I dunno if they’ll ever pay for themselves, but they obviously help with energy costs and emissions. Perhaps the biggest thing I’ve done in saving energy is to go into the boiler engineering settings and turn it down from 30 kWh to 18 and I may turn it down a bit more. I’ve also balanced all the rads, set the Hot water temp and central heating water temperature to more efficient levels, fitted draught excluders, replaced old knackered double glazing and doors (one still to go ) and fitted LED lights (still need to replace one fluorescent tube). The loft has been lagged , too and the boiler replaced. All that I’ve done/had done over a number of years, but I reckon the result is current bills are not much different, maybe a bit more, to what they were a decade ago…. But it’s probably cost close to 10 grand to do all that and will take another decade to recoup the costs via bills being lower than otherwise. That said, the cheap or free parts of it, like basic TRVs, draft excluders, LED bulbs, adjusting the boiler and balancing rads are an absolute no brainer for anyone to do themselves.

 

[bickster]

Quote

Europe has more natural gas than it knows what to do with. So much, in fact, that spot prices briefly went negative earlier this week.

For months, officials have warned of an energy crisis this winter as Russia — once the region’s biggest supplier of natural gas — slashed supplies in retaliation for sanctions Europe imposed over its invasion of Ukraine.

Now, EU gas storage facilities are close to full, tankers carrying liquefied natural gas (LNG) are lining up at ports, unable to unload their cargoes, and prices are tumbling.

The price of benchmark European natural gas futures has dropped 20% since last Thursday, and by more than 70% since hitting a record high in late August. On Monday, Dutch gas spot prices for delivery within an hour — which reflect real time European market conditions — dipped below €0, according to data from the Intercontinental Exchange.

Prices turned negative because of an “oversupplied grid,” Tomas Marzec-Manser, head of gas analytics at the Independent Commodity Intelligence Services (ICIS), told CNN Business.

It is a hugely surprising turn of events for Europe, where households and businesses have been clobbered by eye-watering rises in the price of one of its most important energy sources over the past year.

CNN

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, bickster said:

CNN

I’m predicting little to no change in what end users are having to pay though.

[Mr_Dogg]

Just need cold weather to kick in.

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’m predicting little to no change in what end users are having to pay though.

Yep I think the price for this winter is already baked in but its more positive moving forward after that I think

[sidcow]

The UK has some big wind farms due to come on line in the next 12 months or so and others are being accelerated. 

If they manage to decouple electricity price from gas price by next winter at least electricity should tumble. 

Hopefully more LNG facilities are up and running by then too so gas starts to dip.  I also noticed a snippet earlier about Ukraine has a LOT of untapped Gas currently and are talking to US companies about drilling for it.  Not sure how realistic that is but would help Ukraine rebuild and The West wean further off Russian gas. 

Obviously stopping using it altogether is the main aim but if we need it for a few more years yet I'd rather buy it off Ukraine than Russia. 

[markavfc40]

We are having our pants pulled down.

 

[bickster]

12 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

We are having our pants pulled down.

By the government.

[foreveryoung]

7.1 Billion profit for BP this quarter then, double of last years, shocking the Government has agreed to subsidise these profits, although we will probably be doing it next year. I bet BP wish they could hide them, although I don't think they give a f****.

[sidcow]

36 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

7.1 Billion profit for BP this quarter then, double of last years, shocking the Government has agreed to subsidise these profits, although we will probably be doing it next year. I bet BP wish they could hide them, although I don't think they give a f****.

If this is the declared profit you can guarantee there will be tons more undercover somewhere.

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

If this is the declared profit you can guarantee there will be tons more undercover somewhere.

All their staff are probably working with gold plated Macbook pro’s.

[ender4]

On 26/10/2022 at 19:43, sidcow said:

Hopefully more LNG facilities are up and running by then too so gas starts to dip.  I also noticed a snippet earlier about Ukraine has a LOT of untapped Gas currently and are talking to US companies about drilling for it.  Not sure how realistic that is but would help Ukraine rebuild and The West wean further off Russian gas. 

Average long-term price for natural gas is $3 per MMB unit.

It went up to $9.7 per unit over the summer.

It's now down to $5.6 per unit, and hopefully continues falling in the spring if not before.  

[markavfc40]

Latest predictions. I don't see the government doing much for the masses next year. By then the average consumer will have got used to paying £2500 per year so I'd imagine at best it will be £200-£300 of help per average household. 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by markavfc40

[sidcow]

They really really need to decouple electricity price from gas. I've a feeling that could be the biggest help.  We only really need gas (for heating) around 3 months of the year.  If we can get cheap electricity for the other 9 months from renewable energy those 3 months will be spread out over the rest of the year. 

The way the electricity market works is bonkers.  If we go the whole day on cheap wind and solar power but need to fire up a single gas turbine for the last hour of the day, the whole days electricity is charged at that expensive gas generator price. 

I understand there are complicated reasons that also make (or probably made) sense for this to be the case but its madness now. 

[stuart_75]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

They really really need to decouple electricity price from gas. I've a feeling that could be the biggest help.  We only really need gas (for heating) around 3 months of the year.  If we can get cheap electricity for the other 9 months from renewable energy those 3 months will be spread out over the rest of the year. 

The way the electricity market works is bonkers.  If we go the whole day on cheap wind and solar power but need to fire up a single gas turbine for the last hour of the day, the whole days electricity is charged at that expensive gas generator price. 

I understand there are complicated reasons that also make (or probably made) sense for this to be the case but its madness now. 

This. How can the price of electricity generated by a wind turbine in the North Sea be linked to wholesale gas we buy from Norway or Qatar is crazy. I don't understand why more of a fuss in the media isn't being made about this.

Edited November 7, 2022 by stuart_75
typo

[Genie]

29 minutes ago, stuart_75 said:

This. How can the price of electricity generated by a wind turbine in the North Sea be linked to wholesale gas we buy from Norway or Qatar is crazy. I don't understand why more of a fuss in the media isn't being made about this.

In the realms of worldwide Government intervention on a MAJOR crisis it should be an easy win shouldn’t it?

Have a meeting, agree it has to happen, put it in place, huge part of the energy crisis has been improved for millions, go to the pub.

[blandy]

4 hours ago, sidcow said:

They really really need to decouple electricity price from gas. I've a feeling that could be the biggest help.  We only really need gas (for heating) around 3 months of the year.  If we can get cheap electricity for the other 9 months from renewable energy those 3 months will be spread out over the rest of the year. 

The way the electricity market works is bonkers.  If we go the whole day on cheap wind and solar power but need to fire up a single gas turbine for the last hour of the day, the whole days electricity is charged at that expensive gas generator price. 

I understand there are complicated reasons that also make (or probably made) sense for this to be the case but its madness now. 

It's because of unanticipated circs and contracts, as I understand it.

Before all this Ukraine war, n' that the two were linked and it didn't really matter (though it was still not a good way to do it) because prices were relative to today, low for both.

Electricity from Nuclear, or from Wind or Solar, was (is) provided by a generating company at a price per kWh contracted with the Gov't, and those prices are sort of based on the history of generation - once upon a time it was all coal generated, then as that was phased out and Nuke and gas became more common, the (then) typical price was carried forwards, then solar and wind, similarly...

They did change the way the newest wind and solar are contracted to a kind of cost plus a bit of profit, but most contracts for lecky are based on the gas price for historic reasons.

But it's completely unfit for the modern world. The subsidies for Nuclear and Gas should go and be directed at renewables and insulation.

[foreveryoung]

Been running a electric car this week, should do around 250 mile on a full charge, it's doing 170-180 miles, even had to stop at Knutsford services to fast charge as didn't want to risk it to Manchester.  Cost £22.50, so that works out around £10 cheaper than to fill up my Deisel car? Are they really worth paying the premium and buying one unless your a tree hugger. It'll cost more too as the temperature drops.