Danny Ings

[allani]

1 hour ago, useless said:

Only six teams have scored more goals than us this season, the current top four, and then Man Utd and Leicester.

Which is another way of saying that 5 of the 9 teams above us and 1 of our main rivals have scored more goals than us.  Of whom three have scored almost 1 goal per match more than us and another more than 0.5 goals per match more than us. 

There are also 5 other teams within one decent match of having scored more than us - whereas we could only realistically expect to overtake Leicester after 1 more game.

Edited December 8, 2021 by allani

[nick76]

1 hour ago, Don_Simon said:

Who do you drop to have Ings in the team?

First of all I wouldnt sell Ings which seems a current vibe of this thread.  I'm not sure how I would play the team to be honest.  I dont think having McGinn, Luiz, Buendia, Nakamba and Sanson in one team either makes much sense because at least four of them are going to be occupying the central area of the park and even Buendia likes to come inside.  That to me feels very unbalanced of the team and lacking any real goal scoring threat.  Yes McGinn may pop up with some goals, Buendia once he's more settled but likely to be more of a creator and Sanson might get a few goals but on the whole the goals would have to come from only Watkins.

As for Ings, he's a proven PL striker, probably the most clinical poacher we have and he presses defences, not as effective or as mobile as Watkins but he still does it.  Watkins I love to pieces and is one of the first names on the sheet but one of his few downsides sides is that he isnt clinical in front of goal.  Will that come with time? I dont know, maybe his mobility means he's not always in the box when chances come in but even sometimes in the box he isnt clinical like in the last game.  Where does this means Ings fits in....good question! I dont know.  I dont think we've seen Ollie on form and then Ings in the team at the same time to see if it works plus they've probably only had less than 6 games together in full.  Ings new to the team, Ollie just back from injury and the team in poor form with 5 losses.  Plus still in that time Ings has 3 goals and 2 assists I think, which given everything is pretty damn good.

So I dont know the answer but I'm not sure 5 central-ish midfielders who arent natural goalscorers is the way to go.  I dont think we have seen what Ings and Watkins, in whatever formation truly given a chance.  We cant not have Ings goals in the team somewhere.  I think Ollie and Ings at worst can rotate in the team depending on the needs.  Selling Ings, a proven PL goalscorer is silly.

So I havent answered fully your question but I'm hoping Gerrard can in time.

[Stevo985]

From what I've read about Gerrard at Rangers, he liked to have one of his wide forwards as a striker played out of position. This meant they naturally drifted narrower allowing the fullback to overlap and provide the width, whilst the forward got closer to the box to finish any chances.

I can't be sure it would work with Ings or Watkins but I can see him trying it with them, especially as Bailey so far seems to be shite, when he's actually fit enough to play

[Steero113]

8 minutes ago, nick76 said:

even Buendia likes to come inside.

[useless]

At Rangers the wide forwards were usually Kent on the left, and then one of Aribo or Hagi on the right.

[HalfTimePost]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

 I think Mcginn and Buendia could get 10 each for a start. 

No chance

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, useless said:

At Rangers the wide forwards were usually Kent on the left, and then one of Aribo or Hagi on the right.

He used Roofe a lot there too

[HalfTimePost]

2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

 I think Mcginn and Buendia could get 10 each for a start. 

In 20/21 27 Players scored 10 or more goals. (In 19/20 only 25 managed it)

Spurs (3), United (3), Arsenal (3), Villa (2), Liverpool (2), City (2), Leicester (2), West Ham (2), Palace (2) are the club's with multiple players achieving that. 

Less than half the league managed 2 or more, Only 3 managed 3. 

We famously put everything through Jack and he was not one of our two players to reach 10 goals (Ollie + AEG) 

The idea we can take Buendia and McGinn and turn them into all action inside forwards isnt realistic.

Similarly only 5 players assisted 10 times or more. With only Spurs having multiple players (Son and Kane) to do so.

I believe we can maybe get Buendia to a position to assist 10 times a season. Hopefully 7-10 goals but it's a stretch.

Which means, first of all either Bailey or whoever we play on the left, needs to have goals in their game. They need to be potential 10 goal a season player. That player is not McGinn.

Or, and getting back on topic, whoever is understudying Watkins - Danny Ings - needs to be ruthless in front of goal. He's perfect for that. It's down to Gerrard to make sure he's making the substitutions at the right time for Ings to get his fair share of goals when it isn't happening for Watkins.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by HalfTimePost

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

In 20/21 27 Players scored 10 or more goals. (In 19/20 only 25 managed it)

Spurs (3), United (3), Arsenal (3), Villa (2), Liverpool (2), City (2), Leicester (2), West Ham (2), Palace (2) are the club's with multiple players achieving that. 

Less than half the league managed 2 or more, Only 3 managed 3. 

We famously put everything through Jack and he was not one of our two players to reach 10 goals (Ollie + AEG) 

The idea we can take Buendia and McGinn and turn them into all action inside forwards isnt realistic.

Similarly only 5 players assisted 10 times or more. With only Spurs having multiple players (Son and Kane) to do so.

I believe we can maybe get Buendia to a position to assist 10 times a season. Hopefully 7-10 goals but it's a stretch.

Which means, first of all either Bailey or whoever we play on the left, needs to have goals in their game. They need to be potential 10 goal a season player. That player is not McGinn.

Or, and getting back on topic, whoever is understudying Watkins - Danny Ings - needs to be ruthless in front of goal. He's perfect for that. It's down to Gerrard to make sure he's making the substitutions at the right time for Ings to get his fair share of goals when it isn't happening for Watkins.

[allani]

2 hours ago, Don_Simon said:

Who do you drop to have Ings in the team?"

Of the players listed?  At the moment Sanson.  Moving McGinn back into central midfield.  I still think we need a better player than Nakamba in the midfield "general" role which would give McGinn and Luiz more scope to play their natural games (with JJ and Sanson coming off the bench / competing for either of those positions).  Then I'd cause a VillaTalk meltdown by having Emi and Ollie playing just behind Ings.  They both work really hard off the ball, harry the opposition and exploit the channels.  Obviously they play slightly differently so I would be looking to get the ball short into Emi with him looking to link up with either McGinn breaking past him (as a B2B midfielder) or Luiz to create some space, or to slide the ball through for Ings / Ollie.  Ollie would do a lot of what he does at the moment in terms of exploiting the gap between the centre backs and the opposition right back and making runs from a little deeper to either give Emi another option or to get onto any nods / flicks / layoffs from Ings.  Obviously the big issue here is that it means we don't just hoof balls down to the channel which we did before and which Ollie made look a better tactic than it was.  I don't think that Ollie is very good with his back to goal - he goes down way too easily.  So I think him dropping back ever so slightly so that he is driving towards goal with the ball at his feet (like the goal against Brighton) brings out the best of him.  This isn't putting Ollie out of the wing - SG has already shown that his supporting 2 attackers play narrower than they did with Dean.  I also don't think it makes him any less of a goal threat - in fact giving him an extra 2 or 3 yards space from the central defender so he can use his pace to attack them (rather than having to out muscle them) makes sense.  It makes it harder for the opposition to set their back line as they will be nervous about keeping a grip on Ings whilst not wanting to drop too deep and give Ollie that 4 or 5 yards of space.

We haven't tried this as an option yet because Dean played with a wider base for the 3 up front.  It might not work (either on the training ground or on the pitch on match day) in which case I would expect the coaching staff to quickly scrap it.  I fully anticipate a whole wave of "that will never work", "we play one up top", "it isn't our style" type comments.  But we haven't tried this formation yet and given the way that SG seems to be setting us up it doesn't too far off.  Anyway that is my head above the parapet - fully expecting the snipers to be taking aim. 

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Steero113 said:

FTFY 

[jimmygreaves]

3 hours ago, nick76 said:

As for Ings, he's a proven PL striker...

Is he though?

Is he really a £25 million, 120k a week player?

Edited December 8, 2021 by jimmygreaves

[Steero113]

25 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said:

Is he though?

Is he really a £25 million, 120k a week player?

I mean, whats the yardstick. £25m for someone who's scored 44 PL goals in the last 3 seasons seems pretty reasonable to me when compared with the utter sh**e pictured above. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Steero113

[nick76]

14 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

I mean, whats the yardstick. £25m for someone who's scored 44 PL goals in the last 3 seasons seems pretty reasonable to me when compared with the utter sh**e pictured above. 

@jimmygreaves
 

Edited December 8, 2021 by nick76

[TRO]

4 hours ago, nick76 said:

First of all I wouldnt sell Ings which seems a current vibe of this thread.  I'm not sure how I would play the team to be honest.  I dont think having McGinn, Luiz, Buendia, Nakamba and Sanson in one team either makes much sense because at least four of them are going to be occupying the central area of the park and even Buendia likes to come inside.  That to me feels very unbalanced of the team and lacking any real goal scoring threat.  Yes McGinn may pop up with some goals, Buendia once he's more settled but likely to be more of a creator and Sanson might get a few goals but on the whole the goals would have to come from only Watkins.

As for Ings, he's a proven PL striker, probably the most clinical poacher we have and he presses defences, not as effective or as mobile as Watkins but he still does it.  Watkins I love to pieces and is one of the first names on the sheet but one of his few downsides sides is that he isnt clinical in front of goal.  Will that come with time? I dont know, maybe his mobility means he's not always in the box when chances come in but even sometimes in the box he isnt clinical like in the last game.  Where does this means Ings fits in....good question! I dont know.  I dont think we've seen Ollie on form and then Ings in the team at the same time to see if it works plus they've probably only had less than 6 games together in full.  Ings new to the team, Ollie just back from injury and the team in poor form with 5 losses.  Plus still in that time Ings has 3 goals and 2 assists I think, which given everything is pretty damn good.

So I dont know the answer but I'm not sure 5 central-ish midfielders who arent natural goalscorers is the way to go.  I dont think we have seen what Ings and Watkins, in whatever formation truly given a chance.  We cant not have Ings goals in the team somewhere.  I think Ollie and Ings at worst can rotate in the team depending on the needs.  Selling Ings, a proven PL goalscorer is silly.

So I havent answered fully your question but I'm hoping Gerrard can in time.

Good post Nick and some good Observations.

I too, wouldn't contemplate selling Ings.

I still think there could be a partnership here and I think SG et al.....will get is going.

We will not be short of suitors, if we want to sell, so I am with you on this..... we just need to get the 2 working together, i think it is still doable.

I also think we need to be thinking about squad size for Europe and not midtable.....and if we keep up the intensity in training, niggles will appear so we need to retain good players.

SG will not be concerned of keeping players happy, he will rely heavily on winning games to do that....I don't envisage many exits, but I could be wrong.

[YouUnastanFren]

45 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said:

Is he though?

Is he really a £25 million, 120k a week player?

He scored 22 goals in 19/20 in 2800 minutes in a mediocre Southampton team.

List of players who have broken 20 goals in a season in the last 5 years:

Kane

Salah

Ings

Vardy

Sterling

Aubameyang

Mane

Aguero

Costa

Sanchez

Lukaku

If that's not a list of >£25m, >125k players then I don't know what is.

And he works really hard too. Very strong addition to our squad.

[Don_Simon]

3 hours ago, allani said:

Of the players listed?  At the moment Sanson.  Moving McGinn back into central midfield.  I still think we need a better player than Nakamba in the midfield "general" role which would give McGinn and Luiz more scope to play their natural games (with JJ and Sanson coming off the bench / competing for either of those positions).  Then I'd cause a VillaTalk meltdown by having Emi and Ollie playing just behind Ings.  They both work really hard off the ball, harry the opposition and exploit the channels.  Obviously they play slightly differently so I would be looking to get the ball short into Emi with him looking to link up with either McGinn breaking past him (as a B2B midfielder) or Luiz to create some space, or to slide the ball through for Ings / Ollie.  Ollie would do a lot of what he does at the moment in terms of exploiting the gap between the centre backs and the opposition right back and making runs from a little deeper to either give Emi another option or to get onto any nods / flicks / layoffs from Ings.  Obviously the big issue here is that it means we don't just hoof balls down to the channel which we did before and which Ollie made look a better tactic than it was.  I don't think that Ollie is very good with his back to goal - he goes down way too easily.  So I think him dropping back ever so slightly so that he is driving towards goal with the ball at his feet (like the goal against Brighton) brings out the best of him.  This isn't putting Ollie out of the wing - SG has already shown that his supporting 2 attackers play narrower than they did with Dean.  I also don't think it makes him any less of a goal threat - in fact giving him an extra 2 or 3 yards space from the central defender so he can use his pace to attack them (rather than having to out muscle them) makes sense.  It makes it harder for the opposition to set their back line as they will be nervous about keeping a grip on Ings whilst not wanting to drop too deep and give Ollie that 4 or 5 yards of space.

We haven't tried this as an option yet because Dean played with a wider base for the 3 up front.  It might not work (either on the training ground or on the pitch on match day) in which case I would expect the coaching staff to quickly scrap it.  I fully anticipate a whole wave of "that will never work", "we play one up top", "it isn't our style" type comments.  But we haven't tried this formation yet and given the way that SG seems to be setting us up it doesn't too far off.  Anyway that is my head above the parapet - fully expecting the snipers to be taking aim. 

Who do you drop from the team that played Leicester to include Ings? Sanson was on the bench. You also have Bailey to fit in to.

[jimmygreaves]

53 minutes ago, Steero113 said:

I mean, whats the yardstick. £25m for someone who's scored 44 PL goals in the last 3 seasons seems pretty reasonable to me when compared with the utter sh**e pictured above. 

So proof that £25 million can be spent on crap?

Ings is in the same bracket as the dross you've highlighted.... We've had our pants pulled down with this one.

Ings might we'll work out, I'm not seeing it thought. He'd be a better fit at a West Ham or Newcastle.

[Steero113]

15 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said:

So proof that £25 million can be spent on crap?

Ings is in the same bracket as the dross you've highlighted.... We've had our pants pulled down with this one.

Ings might we'll work out, I'm not seeing it thought. He'd be a better fit at a West Ham or Newcastle.

Couldn't disagree with every single word of this post more if I tried a thousand times over.

[Zatman]

19 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said:

So proof that £25 million can be spent on crap?

Ings is in the same bracket as the dross you've highlighted.... We've had our pants pulled down with this one.

Ings might we'll work out, I'm not seeing it thought. He'd be a better fit at a West Ham or Newcastle.

In what world is Ings crap or comparable to them players?