Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Tomaszk]

5 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

I’m pretty sure that’s not an option that you can do. FA rules seem to say that you have the option to take kick off or pick an end and that 

• the team that decided which goal to attack in the first half takes the kick-off to start the second half

If Ronaldo won the toss then this would suggest that he chose to take kick off and then we switched ends.

Interesting, didn't know that.

Certainly whenever I called a toss, it was like tennis and you could do whatever you wanted if you won it.

I hate the two tosses they've now started having for penalty shootous. So you can get a team winning both and getting to go first, and kick into their fans.

[sne]

One monumental shift from how we played under Gerrard compared to this game was the number of crosses attempted.

 Yesterday we only made 7 crosses (2 successful) according to the stats sites. Usually much higher number attempted. Might be a one off, remains to be seen I guess.

[CVByrne]

19 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Average positions for anyone interested:

 

Interesting how the double pivot plays. Digne allowed to get forward more than Cash and Buendia dropping deep to act as play maker

[Tubby]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

Interesting how the double pivot plays. Digne allowed to get forward more than Cash and Buendia dropping deep to act as play maker

I've got a feeling that we will see Digne play less forward over time and his average position to become more like Cash.  Wing backs are certainly a part of Emery's style, but only as a way to open up a sustained attack and not as a primary attacking method a la Gerrard.

[Tubby]

17 hours ago, Spoony said:

Credit to the players for adapting, learning a game plan and smashing United within 4 days. Glad they’re listening, learning and applying themselves 

In the post match media, many of them mentioned how hard they had worked this week and how much they had had to learn.  It's a good sign (i.e. "this gaffer actually knows what he's on about and is communicating it").

[DJBOB]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

Interesting how the double pivot plays. Digne allowed to get forward more than Cash and Buendia dropping deep to act as play maker

Digne forward position this week is I think heavily influenced by Ronaldo/Rashford on that side. Neither press and so Mings-Digne-Buendia-Luiz had the run of it around them for a long time.

I do think Digne will be much more forward than Cash because of Unai's asymmetrical style, especially if he continues lining up Buendia on that side as well. But that's okay since a lot of top teams attack asymmetrically anyway. City usually have Cancelo get forward while Walker/Ake/whoever on the right side stays back and only overlaps when necessary. Arsenal do the same with Zinchenko occupying a more central position on their left while Ben White or whoever is at RB plays further back.

I suspect Unai will tweak these game plans depending on who they are playing. Against United it was okay because Rashford was at that side but I wonder what happens when they play the rematch or Brighton.

[TomC]

5 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

They took kick off which means we’ll have picked ends. If you win the toss you can either choose which end to attack first and then the opposition takes kick off or you can choose to take kick off and the opposition picks an end.

So in any game of football the team not kicking off first will have picked the end to attack first.

 

This is correct. To quote directly from the Laws of the Game...

 

Quote

• the referee tosses a coin and the team that wins the toss decides which goal to attack in the first half or to take the kick-off

• depending on the above, their opponents take the kick-off or decide which goal to attack in the first half

In my days as a ref, teams almost always picked a side. The kickoff isn't that big of an advantage (at least compared to a sport like American football). Usually you pick based on the sun or the wind...if it's windy, take the wind at your back first half and hope that it dies down for your opponents second half. If you're on a pitch laid out east-west, pick sides so that your opponents' goalkeeper will have the sun in their eyes at the worst time. At higher levels, I'm sure that attacking towards your own supporters also plays a factor.

[turvontour]

It's a ridiculously good bench now when majority of players are fit. Those substitutes made against Man U were the strongest quality I remember, and we no longer see that fall off in ability/quality when needing to bring on fresh legs.

Defending a lead against a top team a few years ago and bringing on Davis, Hause, Hourihane and Neil Taylor.

[duke313]

25 minutes ago, turvontour said:

It's a ridiculously good bench now when majority of players are fit. Those substitutes made against Man U were the strongest quality I remember, and we no longer see that fall off in ability/quality when needing to bring on fresh legs.

Defending a lead against a top team a few years ago and bringing on Davis, Hause, Hourihane and Neil Taylor.

Which itself is a step up from bring on Bacuna, Gestede, Tshibola and Cissokho.

[turvontour]

6 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Which itself is a step up from bring on Bacuna, Gestede, Tshibola and Cissokho.

Haha I know right. Absolutely no disrespect to any of the players but it shows how much more we should be competing now. Gerrard got so little out of this squad.

[PussEKatt]

On 09/11/2022 at 18:43, turvontour said:

Gerrard got so little out of this squad.

I really makes me wonder how he won the title in Scotland ?!

[Delphinho123]

4 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

I really makes me wonder how he won the title in Scotland ?!

I could win the title in Scotland. 

[turvontour]

6 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

I really makes me wonder how he won the title in Scotland ?!

It would be like managing man city to the premier league title with your only opposition being Liverpool and the other 18 teams being like Watford, Norwich type standard.

[PussEKatt]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

I could win the title in Scotland. 

Thats exactly what I mean.He had us playing the worst football I can remember ( even worse than under Alex McStupid,S.Bruce,etc ) and yet he went through a season in Scotland Unbeaten.

[PussEKatt]

Just now, turvontour said:

It would be like managing man city to the premier league title with your only opposition being Liverpool and the other 18 teams being like Watford, Norwich type standard.

I do realise that.The way I see it is that Scotland decided to have 12 teams in the SPL.They only have 2 SPL teams,2 Championship teams and the rest of the division is made up of league 1 teams.But,with Gerrards crap formation/tactcs I still find it difficult to believe that he actually won games against Celtic.Hibbs and Hearts,not to mention Dumbarton,Dunfirmile etc ( with all due respect to these teams.

[DJBOB]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

I do realise that.The way I see it is that Scotland decided to have 12 teams in the SPL.They only have 2 SPL teams,2 Championship teams and the rest of the division is made up of league 1 teams.But,with Gerrards crap formation/tactcs I still find it difficult to believe that he actually won games against Celtic.Hibbs and Hearts,not to mention Dumbarton,Dunfirmile etc ( with all due respect to these teams.

You have to consider that he bought in some 30 players, all of whom will be sold for less than they bought them for the most part and the Celtic manager was a drunk.

Considering Beale's relative success with QPR, it's clear he did the tactician portion of it - which was probably enough for Rangers to go undefeated considering their much superior squad.

Gerrard can play boring ball to eek out some results in Europe - it is just a one off game that the team can get up for (consider some of our 'performances' against City/Liverpool/Chelsea/United) - but quality will out and now Rangers posted the worst GD in the group stage.

[DJBOB]

You'd have to be blind not to see it but loving the high line Villa are playing. United clearly trying to play behind it so it's a dangerous cat and mouse game, but a good idea of what Unai wants to do.

Compress the field and don't let United just do what they want on the ball.

[DJBOB]

Some thoughts on the cup draw vs United

• The shape was not dissimilar from the league game against United as we primarily defended in a 4132 box to force them around and swarm any inside passes - the key difference was that Villa employed a relatively high line - compressing the field and forcing United to try to play in behind. It is a risky strategy considering the personnel 
• That Unai instructed them to play a high line is a key differentiator between himself and his predecessors. Unai asked a LOT out of brand new back line, especially Chambers and Augustinsson who have barely had a kick this season. United took a while to grow into the game and when they did, they started targeting that right side exclusively. The combination and unsure positioning of Ludwig and Chambers directly led to the first goal. Ludwig is somehow outside of Bruno and completely loses his man while Chambers is done for pace.
• In the build up, Villa were hampered by some poor spacing between Mcginn and Ludwig. McGinn was often showing outside when he should have been positioned inside. This was the spot Buendia occupied during the league game and it forced United into a difficult decision. Instead Mcginn took up spaces on the wing, effectively cutting off Ludwig’s forward progression. This, in turn, led to either Watkins or Ings static against their CB’s centrally instead of splitting wide. On the other side of the pitch, we fared better in the build up because of Ramsay’s carrying ability but Ings did not have the dynamic combos that Ramsay and Bailey had. It was a pretty ineffective attack 
• Our first goal was made from the exact trap that the 4132 box was intended to do. A quick turnover and then finding a numerical advantage in transition ended in a good finish by Ollie
• After the substitutions, Villa were a more real threat on the counter but were sunk by Olsen. No lengthy explanations needed here. Quality just not good enough. 
   

All in all, it was interesting from a tactical perspective and I hope it that Unai used this game to more readily judge the squad he has available. It is no use playing a high line when you employ the lack of pace that Chambers or Ludwig have. The attacking combos that mcginn and Ings offered were far off the mark than Buendia and Bailey.

So I think Unai received some answers on his personnel and I’m curious to see what he does against different teams now

[allani]

12 hours ago, CVByrne said:

We have to remember who these players are. 4-0 win against Brentford and then give up totally and get hammered 4-0 to Newcastle. Win 3-1 (with 0.46 xG) against United an then throw away 2-1 lead to lose 4-2 next game.

This team are in the dictionary beside the word spineless coward. Emery needs to be 100% backed to ger rid of at least 60% of the regular first team. He needs backing by NS

We don't need to get rid of 6 of the starting XI.  Two or three new additions will make a huge difference and allow more rotation / ability to do different things against different teams.  I think that last night did show that our squad depth is not as deep as we would like.  Admittedly we probably won't be changing that number of players between matches very often so we can probably cope with one or two that performed less well yesterday.

[MaVilla]

Something emerys recent games have highlighted is just how important athleticism is.

When you see the speed and quick movement of many players, especially if you like to play higher up the pitch, you need the recovery speed, but also turn speed etc in our defensive line, one reason I think emery will like Carlos, Co patent on the ball but rapid also.

When you have players like Zaha, Bailey, sarr etc etc, their ability to break at speed can really carve teams open.

I hope we buy a similar type player for our right side so we have genuine athletic threat on both sides of the pitch.

Tbh I would also like to see a forward in  a similar mould, the ability to break at speed with our front line means teams are much less likely to be able to pin you in your half, and are generally scared to over commit forward as you pose such a risk on the break.

Edited November 11, 2022 by MaVilla