JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Will state again, we legit miss Nakamba 2.0 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I do agree with the approach that you sign players to fit the system and way you want to play. Klopp / Guardiola have done this with considerable success. Klopp especially so given he's got 4th (could be 5th or 6th even) in terms of financial resources at his disposal. For right now though a bit of pragmatism with regards what way to get best out of our players. Which really means mitigation of our biggest weakness the midfield. It depends how far we want to go in that direction - look at what happened when MON left after he'd signed players that were for a very specific system. Also, Klopp and Guardiola have proven themselves over the years and earned the right to basically do as they please. Gerrard's still got a long way to go and I think he needs to show some flexibility himself and the talent to adapt what we have to what he wants to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 47 minutes ago, MaVilla said: Konsa cant come back in, he is banned (was a 2 match ban, not 1). Second yellow rather than straight red so surely it should be 1 match ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Just now, ender4 said: Second yellow rather than straight red so surely it should be 1 match ban. It's his second red of the season, which I think is why the extra game ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Just now, duke313 said: It's his second red of the season, which I think is why the extra game ban. Oh I see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Imo, for the personnel we have, we're suited to a 4-2-3-1. We played our best football in decades with that formation around Christmas last year, and we have even better players now. Watkins/Ings Bailey/Coutinho Buendia/Traore Coutinho/Ramsey/Chuk McGinn/Sanson Luiz/Nakamba --------------------------back 5----------------------------- 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 3 hours ago, TRO said: I'm not disputing that, but we can only watch the game and report on what we see Hippo....just like we did against Leeds. I think, we are all trying to find answers of why we are so darn **** I will be honest I don't mind this group of players finishing mid table. What I can't accept is we become so poor that we hardly win any games. Or that 5 or 6 current first teamers need to be replaced. Let add to what we have - if that's a DM or to - fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 It's not just Watkin's, I don't wanna single him out, but he is a good example and stands out, of what is wrong at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 14, 2022 Author Share Posted February 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: It's not just Watkin's, I don't wanna single him out, but he is a good example and stands out, of what is wrong at the moment. versus Newcastle, for me......the problems were Cash, Luiz, McGinn & Watkins, predominantly. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossco76 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 To those that are complaining that gerrard isn't adapting the system to our available players, a serious question: What system do you employ with a pretty shit midfield that appear to struggle to retain possession? Long balls from defence that bypass our midfield players? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Rossco76 said: To those that are complaining that gerrard isn't adapting the system to our available players, a serious question: What system do you employ with a pretty shit midfield that appear to struggle to retain possession? Long balls from defence that bypass our midfield players? Playing 433 under Smith we finished 11th with the points tally that would usually get 7th or 8th. Maybe he could try that? He has a Ramsey that is better than last season. A fit Sanson. Carney a year older. It's a better midfield than last season. Edited February 15, 2022 by Tomaszk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 15, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 15, 2022 Here's a radical departure - I'm not serious about this eleven starting, but I think it says something about our shape and approach tactically that is causing us problems. We could play: --------------------------Martinez----------------------- Buendia-------Chambers----Mings-------Bailey ------------Cash---------Luiz-------Digne------------ -----------------Ramsey-----Coutinho-------------- ---------------------------Watkins------------------------ Which looks insane on paper, but when we have the ball in our system, suddenly looks a lot more sensible: --------------------------Martinez------------------------ --------------Chambers-------Mings----------------- -Cash------------------Luiz------------------Digne-- -----------------Ramsey-----Coutinho-------------- Buendia-------------Watkins---------------Bailey Because when we attacked against Newcastle, we were often like this: --------------------------Martinez------------------------ --------------Chambers-------Mings----------------- --Ramsey---------------Luiz---------------McGinn-- -----------------Buendia-----Coutinho-------------- Cash-----------------Watkins----------------Digne That for me puts a lot of players into positions where they aren't at their strongest. If our two wider central midfielders are going to play as full back cover when we have the ball and our full backs are going to be up front, I'd rather have players that can attack well at full back and players that can cover the full back positions well in midfield; I'd sooner have Buendia and Bailey on the wings than Cash and Digne and I'd sooner have Cash and Digne covering full back positions than McGinn and Ramsey. I realise that might sound a bit confusing but for me one of our major problems at the moment is that we're relying on the goal threat of Digne and Cash and relying on McGinn and Ramsey to cover wingers - neither of which makes whole lot of sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Here's a radical departure - I'm not serious about this eleven starting, but I think it says something about our shape and approach tactically that is causing us problems. We could play: --------------------------Martinez----------------------- Buendia-------Chambers----Mings-------Bailey ------------Cash---------Luiz-------Digne------------ -----------------Ramsey-----Coutinho-------------- ---------------------------Watkins------------------------ Which looks insane on paper, but when we have the ball in our system, suddenly looks a lot more sensible: --------------------------Martinez------------------------ --------------Chambers-------Mings----------------- -Cash------------------Luiz------------------Digne-- -----------------Ramsey-----Coutinho-------------- Buendia-------------Watkins---------------Bailey Because when we attacked against Newcastle, we were often like this: --------------------------Martinez------------------------ --------------Chambers-------Mings----------------- --Ramsey---------------Luiz---------------McGinn-- -----------------Buendia-----Coutinho-------------- Cash-----------------Watkins----------------Digne That for me puts a lot of players into positions where they aren't at their strongest. If our two wider central midfielders are going to play as full back cover when we have the ball and our full backs are going to be up front, I'd rather have players that can attack well at full back and players that can cover the full back positions well in midfield; I'd sooner have Buendia and Bailey on the wings than Cash and Digne and I'd sooner have Cash and Digne covering full back positions than McGinn and Ramsey. I realise that might sound a bit confusing but for me one of our major problems at the moment is that we're relying on the goal threat of Digne and Cash and relying on McGinn and Ramsey to cover wingers - neither of which makes whole lot of sense. I understand what you mean, the problem with the top formation is that Buendia and Bailey would be expected to defend like full backs when not in possession, which presents the same issue you've mentioned with players in positions they aren't strongest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 15, 2022 Moderator Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 minute ago, duke313 said: I understand what you mean, the problem with the top formation is that Buendia and Bailey would be expected to defend like full backs when not in possession, which presents the same issue you've mentioned with players in positions they aren't strongest. True. It's arguable whether the primary role of our full backs is defensive or attacking right now though, it'd be interesting to see the heat maps for them as I suspect they spend more time in the opposition half than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 15, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2022 21 minutes ago, useless said: Either that or tweak the system slightly, maybe two DMs, with Ramsey just ahead of them, that way the two DMs would mean the fullbacks could still have license to attack, and Ramsey would still be part of the midfield three and could still play the box to box midfield role that he's so good at, but would have more freedom to get forward. Ramsey, Coutinho and Buendia as the 3 if narrow and then if you want to play wider there's Bailey and Traore. Sounds good to me, would be easier to really change things if narrow isn't working. Problem is, we don't have 1 really class 6, let alone two, McGinn is wasted as a 6 for me and Luiz is way better as an 8 even though he can play as a DM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 I would see it as more of 42121, as I don't think Ramsey would be as far forward as Coutinho and Buendia, we'd still need him back in midfield helping out there, which is fine because that's what he's good at as he's shown, but would also allow him to get forward as well. Essentially in that system I'd see Ramsey as playing more like a Gerrard/Lampard type, rather than an out and out No.10, kind of similar to how he's playing now, but with less of a need for him to cover for the fullbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Our set piece defending has been very ropey recently and with a Hodgson side that is usually one of their strong points. I just don't want us to concede a stupid early goal at home yet again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 hour ago, romavillan said: Ramsey, Coutinho and Buendia as the 3 if narrow and then if you want to play wider there's Bailey and Traore. Sounds good to me, would be easier to really change things if narrow isn't working.Problem is, we don't have 1 really class 6, let alone two, McGinn is wasted as a 6 for me and Luiz is way better as an 8 even though he can play as a DM. On his own Luiz hasn't looked great as a DM, but if he had another DM beside him like Nakamba or even Chambers for now, he could operate as more of a deep playmaker rather than an out and out DM, Nakamba/Chambers as the ball winning DM type. Would allow Ramsey to play as the Box to Box type of the 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerryBarrPet Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, duke313 said: On his own Luiz hasn't looked great as a DM, but if he had another DM beside him like Nakamba or even Chambers for now, he could operate as more of a deep playmaker rather than an out and out DM, Nakamba/Chambers as the ball winning DM type. Would allow Ramsey to play as the Box to Box type of the 3. This is close to probably the best use of our current squad - shame Nakamba is injured - I think Luiz, Nakamba and Ramsey would fit with a front three of Coutinho, Buendia and either Watkins or Ings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said: This is close to probably the best use of our current squad - shame Nakamba is injured - I think Luiz, Nakamba and Ramsey would fit with a front three of Coutinho, Buendia and either Watkins or Ings. I would start Hause beside Mings this weekend, and play Chambers alongside Luiz, with Ramsey in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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