Transgenderism

[icouldtelltheworld]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

The problem is not men at all. The problem is society.

If you said women are the problem, you would be cained, so please be careful blaming men for everything.

98% of sex offenders are men. On this issue, men are most definitely the problem.

Edit - as per data from the Crime Survery for England and Wales

Quote

In 2011, males accounted for the vast majority of prosecutions for sexual offences

(98.2 per cent). More specifically, males aged 18 and over accounted for 89.7 per

cent of proceedings for sexual offences, with similar proportions for rape (89.6 per

cent) and sexual assault (89.2 per cent) proceedings

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by icouldtelltheworld

[chrisp65]

34 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

This is exactly how my wife feels. 

I am going to be very honest here, because I feel that I really read the room wrong on this, and my wife became very hurt, which in turn made me feel awful. 

I have always been very liberal socially, and my instant reaction when she brought this up was to go liberal, and suggest that I feel solidarity for LGBTQ rights, in the same way I have always been extremely pro-womens rights and pro choice. I realise now that perhaps I was conflating all of these issues, the rights of individuals, if you will. 

What I did not get was the depth of feeling my wife had toward this issue. She felt, understandably, that the hard fought rights of women, and women's safe spaces were potentially threatened by the way society treats trans women. This is extremely hard for me as a (hopefully) enlightened man, who feels strongly that everyone- gay, straight, male, female should have equality of rights. I'm still not sure I understand how my feelings fit in with this subject, as I think that as well intentioned as I feel I am, I have entered into a conversation I am ill equipped to deal with. 

Perhaps as others have mentioned, this is a society level issue. Perhaps instead of allocating existing male and female spaces to trans women/men, we need new spaces. Perhaps this undermines the equality of the Trans community. Honestly I have no idea, and my instincts seem severely inappropriate. I would love some help on this, I just don't know how to feel. 

 

I think lots of people are in a very similar place.

On the ‘safe spaces’ I completely understand that someone in a refuge sheltering from male violence is not going to want to share that space and debate the finer points of equality with some that has male genitals. But my understanding is that the Equality Act and other legislation absolutely allows safe spaces like that to exist.

On the issue of having fought for womens rights, I’ve heard that a few times and I’m not absolutely sure what that means? Are we worried wage equality could be compromised? Or job prospects? The vote? Genuinely not sure what rights that have been hard won are lost if trans people are treated with respect.

On so much of the rest of it, prison space allocation, toilets etc., well the problem is old fashioned design of the physical environment. We are a rich and liberal country that also currently happens to have empty prisons, so perhaps there should be third and fourth category prisons not just the old binary male / female? We do it for sex offenders and terrorists, for the elderly or people that aren’t considered a threat, we have open prisons and secure prisons. We just need another category and that whole issue melts away.

Same for toilets. Make all toilets unisex, like a proper grown up country. We never had baby change facilities until recently, we never had disabled access. It’s absolutely easy to do.

My instinct is to just give everyone equality and respect and safety. Protecting everyone’s safety without pandering to old fashioned ideas on what is acceptable for other people to be.

[juanpabloangel18]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

I think he has a point its society not just men

Yeh slightly clumsy perhaps, but 4/5 of all violence is committed by men, and that portion is even higher for sexual offences. There's societal reasons for that (patriarchy, misogyny, etc) but facts are facts. And it's why cis women are so protective over 'female only spaces' - it's because of the behaviour of cis men, not trans men

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, juanpabloangel18 said:

Yeh slightly clumsy perhaps, but 4/5 of all violence is committed by men, and that portion is even higher for sexual offences. There's societal reasons for that (patriarchy, misogyny, etc) but facts are facts. And it's why cis women are so protective over 'female only spaces' - it's because of the behaviour of cis men, not trans men

All good mate its a discussion no need for anyone to get in a huff about it. Thia kind of subject will have differing views

[foreveryoung]

5 hours ago, bobzy said:

Men are the worst though, to be fair.

Speak for yourself. 

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Speak for yourself. 

He's talking about a statistical fact. The statistical gap between men and women in this area is so wide that it is incontrovertible. That you seem to be incapable of understanding that is on you and no-one else

[foreveryoung]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

He's talking about a statistical fact. The statistical gap between men and women in this area is so wide that it is incontrovertible. That you seem to be incapable of understanding that is on you and no-one else

I understand, no need to be so condescending!! How many men would actually report sexaul assault is what you should be asking, not many I'm guessing, doesn't mean it don't happen.

[foreveryoung]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

All good mate its a discussion no need for anyone to get in a huff about it. This kind of subject will have differing views

Are you allowed them though, like few threads on here?

[StefanAVFC]

14 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Are you allowed them though, like few threads on here?

You’re allowed them but when the stats say the opposite, then maybe some reflection is needed. 

[bickster]

15 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I understand, no need to be so condescending!! How many men would actually report sexaul assault is what you should be asking, not many I'm guessing, doesn't mean it don't happen.

The inference you are making here is that women actually do report sexual assaults more readily

You'd be wrong there too

 

[bickster]

17 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Are you allowed them though, like few threads on here?

Strange that you appear to be posting your opinion on here if you aren't allowed to have a differing opinion to other posters

[Davkaus]

To be not allowed to share your opinion usually means people...read, think about, and disagree with your opinions. It's been a while.

[Designer1]

**** state of it.

[foreveryoung]

51 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

To be not allowed to share your opinion usually means people...read, think about, and disagree with your opinions. It's been a while.

That's fine, it's the condensending replies I have issue with.

I've actually disagreed with nothing, apart stating a fact men are not the only problem, as it's societal.

An it shocks me, that people say that about men, use it in context of a women ie. "Women are the problem", an you wouldn't here the last of it on here, or in the media, but apparently men can be slagged to the hills no worries.

[icouldtelltheworld]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

I understand, no need to be so condescending!! How many men would actually report sexaul assault is what you should be asking, not many I'm guessing, doesn't mean it don't happen.

How many of the 2% of all sex offenders who are female abused someone alongside a male partner. I'd wager its a good chunk of them

It's a bit weird because you seem to be much closer to the position of the women who have concerns about this issue, but then can't admit the feminists have might have a good point about something

[StefanAVFC]

9 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

That's fine, it's the condensending replies I have issue with.

I've actually disagreed with nothing, apart stating a fact men are not the only problem, as it's societal.

An it shocks me, that people say that about men, use it in context of a women ie. "Women are the problem", an you wouldn't here the last of it on here, or in the media, but apparently men can be slagged to the hills no worries.

But that’s not how the conversation went. 
 

this is what happened 

men are the problem 

not only men

ok but stats show men almost entirely commit this sort of assault 

can’t even share my opinion 

[juanpabloangel18]

18 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

The problem is not men at all

11 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

How many men would actually report sexaul assault is what you should be asking

9 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

I've actually disagreed with nothing, apart stating a fact men are not the only problem

One might assume that you're not approaching this issue in particularly good faith

[bobzy]

10 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

That's fine, it's the condensending replies I have issue with.

I've actually disagreed with nothing, apart stating a fact men are not the only problem, as it's societal.

An it shocks me, that people say that about men, use it in context of a women ie. "Women are the problem", an you wouldn't here the last of it on here, or in the media, but apparently men can be slagged to the hills no worries.

It's always ridiculous when people refer to this sort of whataboutery.  You wouldn't hear the end of it on here because you'd be completely and utterly wrong.

There are more women in the UK than men and yet men almost (but not quite, you're right!) exclusively commit all sexual offences - and we're even aware that the majority of rape claims don't lead to a prosecution (see; Mason Greenwood) so the actual figure of offence is probably far higher.

Do men exclusively commit all sexual crimes ever?  No, they don't.  Do they commit the majority of them by a country mile?  Yes, they do (approx 98% apparently).  It doesn't mean all men commit sexual offences.  I'm not really sure why you have a problem with stating this; it's just fact. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by bobzy

[choffer]

 

 

Not that further evidence was needed.

 

[juanpabloangel18]

Isn't it strange how frequently a discussion about transgenderism veers into the topic of male violence against women, when really it's not a trans issue at all.

As far as I know there's no evidence that trans women are assaulting cis women in any statistically significant number. If there was it would be EVERYWHERE in our media.

There's two trans issues in society that we need to have a grown up conversation on:

- Women only spaces

- Competitive sport

I'd let individual sports bodies come to their decisions based on the nature of the sport, and let venues make/advertise their own policies on female spaces, bathrooms etc and just let everyone live their damn lives and make their choices.

Everything else is noise. Let the healthcare experts deal with gender dysphoria without culture war entering into it.

Edited February 8, 2023 by juanpabloangel18