tomsky_11 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Mark Albrighton said: Thread on the Ings transfer and its relation to FFP. Won’t pretend I fully follow this or that I suddenly feel great about letting our current top goal scorer go for a price that I think is a little short. But as has been said before on here, there’s obviously other factors that are being considered with a view to the future. The point that selling Ings is a positive for FFP is obviously true. But I don't think the numbers in this thread are right. Is there a wage/amortisation to turnover ratio limit in FFP? I thought there'd been changes to the rules recently but not sure on the specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Yep, my bad. Corrected. This is really excellent work. Many thanks for putting it together. Would be good to include the player sale price too n the season they were sold and net it off with the remaining contract amortisation so we get a p/l for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 28 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: Yep, my bad. Corrected. doesnt Wesley's contract finish at the end of the 23/24 season?, not the 22/23 season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: The point that selling Ings is a positive for FFP is obviously true. But I don't think the numbers in this thread are right. Is there a wage/amortisation to turnover ratio limit in FFP? I thought there'd been changes to the rules recently but not sure on the specifics. The author of that thread got confused. The 70% ratio are the new UEFA ffp regulations, they are being introduced gradually. It's actually 90% currently going down over next few seasons to 70%. Thwt would only apply to us if we qualified for Europe. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Few additional ones. Bailey cost £25m not £30m. Why are we amortising Kamara who was free? Also for people who are looking at just the amortisation. Remember when we loaned players out we get loan fee's which are income and offsetting to this. Also wages are the other big expenditure to be added in to this. Also player sales bring in profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 36 minutes ago, tomsky_11 said: The point that selling Ings is a positive for FFP is obviously true. But I don't think the numbers in this thread are right. Is there a wage/amortisation to turnover ratio limit in FFP? I thought there'd been changes to the rules recently but not sure on the specifics. 20 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: The author of that thread got confused. The 70% ratio are the new UEFA ffp regulations, they are being introduced gradually. It's actually 90% currently going down over next few seasons to 70%. Thwt would only apply to us if we qualified for Europe. And for the PL clubs not in Europe there is just an absolute limit of £35m of allowable losses per year over a 3 year period (105m total for any 3 year period). Uefa expect most national league bodies to bring their regulations in line, but so far FA are resisting. It's a death knell to competitive football if it succeeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, MrBlack said: And for the PL clubs not in Europe there is just an absolute limit of £35m of allowable losses per year over a 3 year period (105m total for any 3 year period). Uefa expect most national league bodies to bring their regulations in line, but so far FA are resisting. It's a death knell to competitive football if it succeeds. Agree, UEFA is changing the rules to try and stop the power of the Premier League, it is too late. The Premier League is the super league, anyone can see that with the transfer spends happening. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 minute ago, MrBlack said: And for the PL clubs not in Europe there is just an absolute limit of £35m of allowable losses per year over a 3 year period (105m total for any 3 year period). Uefa expect most national league bodies to bring their regulations in line, but so far FA are resisting. It's a death knell to competitive football if it succeeds. No need to bring it in for the PL. Teams who play in Europe can factor in the cap. Teams who aren't in regular European football get the income boost of they qualify for Europe so that can help tilt the income to wages/amortisation in the clubs favour. At the end of the day they'll probably give points penalty for breaching the rules but for Europa Conference League or whatever nobody in PL cares. Soon enough Europe will be irrelevant. PL will be the Super League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 1, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, MrBlack said: And for the PL clubs not in Europe there is just an absolute limit of £35m of allowable losses per year over a 3 year period (105m total for any 3 year period). Unless you're Everton. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHY Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, CVByrne said: No need to bring it in for the PL. Teams who play in Europe can factor in the cap. Teams who aren't in regular European football get the income boost of they qualify for Europe so that can help tilt the income to wages/amortisation in the clubs favour. At the end of the day they'll probably give points penalty for breaching the rules but for Europa Conference League or whatever nobody in PL cares. Soon enough Europe will be irrelevant. PL will be the Super League It is already the Super League and has been for years. Baffles me why clubs in the PL wanted to join the Super League, why hand over the golden goose and make other teams in Europe far more competitive again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, WHY said: It is already the Super League and has been for years. Baffles me why clubs in the PL wanted to join the Super League, why hand over the golden goose and make other teams in Europe far more competitive again. Only reason was the CL money, only 4 teams qualify per year and 2 sit out. That kind of revenue fluxuation was their issue 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 46 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Few additional ones. Bailey cost £25m not £30m. Why are we amortising Kamara who was free? Also for people who are looking at just the amortisation. Remember when we loaned players out we get loan fee's which are income and offsetting to this. Also wages are the other big expenditure to be added in to this. Also player sales bring in profit. Don’t think many of the fees are know with certainty. Took most of them from wiki where stated, but there are obvious caveats around whether they are accurate, add ons, etc. Kamara seemed unrealistic to assume no amortisation as iirc signing on fees for players are also amortised and would assume these would normally be higher with a free transfer. I stuck in £1m a year as a complete guess. I put the table together just to try and tie back to the last accounts and then get a rough idea of where we might be now and in future. Will do similar with rest of p&l when have more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 47 minutes ago, MrBlack said: And for the PL clubs not in Europe there is just an absolute limit of £35m of allowable losses per year over a 3 year period (105m total for any 3 year period). Uefa expect most national league bodies to bring their regulations in line, but so far FA are resisting. It's a death knell to competitive football if it succeeds. Yeah this is what I thought and had been working to in my previous estimates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, tomsky_11 said: Yep, my bad. Corrected. Who is Smith? Been racking my brains but having a brain fade. If it’s Deano compensation where is Gerrard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, villaglint said: Who is Smith? Been racking my brains but having a brain fade. If it’s Deano compensation where is Gerrard? Kerr Smith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, CVByrne said: Kerr Smith Yep. Think I’ve included everything over £1m I could find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Accounts are out. We made a pre tax profit of 600k . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 We seem to be doing ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 16 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: Accounts are out. We made a pre tax profit of 600k . Is this the first time ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomsky_11 Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Hmm. I predicted pre tax profit of £4M and FFP figure of £20M a while back. I think the latter figure is going to be about the same. I had lower revenue and higher wages though, so presumably amortisation has had a massive uptick way beyond what I'd expected. Club saying they spent £203.5M on player aquisitions backs this up. Most estimates for what we spent 21/22 seem to be more like £120M, so not sure how we get to over £200M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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