Ollie Watkins

[useless]

Watkins has been playing as an out and out striker for Brentford this season not as a No.10 type, I don't know if it's because he used to play as 'winger' it's making people think that he wouldn't be a typical centre-forward, but that's how he's been playing this season, straight through the middle, he just has a better all round game than a typical goal poacher, the only question will be whether he can do it at premier league level.

Last season so many were desperate for us to sign Maupay and then moaned when we didn't, his record at Brentford is very similar to Watkins.

[alreadyexists]

I also think it’s worth saying that there is no such thing as a ‘Championship Player’... just football players with varying abilities. And, crucially, varying capability to get better and to fit in to an existing system.

I think Watkins would improve us, whether he’ll improve us more than someone else that costs more/less/the same amount ... I have no idea and I doubt anyone else will until it’s demonstrated or not.

Every transfer is a risk, does risk go down as value increases?... probably a little bit, but I think on balance Watkins is worth the risk of investing a chunk of our transfer budget. 

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, lexicon said:

With wages, it's again very tricky. I think our best play is to go as gradually and as organically as possible, so as to not upset the apple cart and cause any issues within the squad. I just don't want us to be in the position where we were before, paying large sums to trash like Lescott, Richards, Gabby, Ireland, Given, N'Zogbia etc. and still being shit. 

Oh i agree but we need to push above the relegation struggle next season.  Also upset the apple cart, we just avoided relegation....before lockdown we wouldnt have cared if we lost most of these players except Grealish, McGinn, Mings and Heaton....now Luiz has come into that group but would you really care if most of the rest of them left because they think they think they deserve more.  The likelyhood is Grealish will get a massive payrise, I would imagine that Mings isnt far behind that either with his profile growing this season with England and his media profile. 

I dont want to lose players from the squad obviously as I want to build on that but I rather Jack stays because he sees that we are bringing in talent, McGinn said the same thing post the final game and I assume Mings feels the same.  They will also feel better if we win or draw more games, look stronger and not fighting relegation every week.  Or the apple cart might be rocked because we arent advancing and thus Grealish and Mings leave for big clubs and we end up with the apples that are slowly rotting that nobody wants.

We need the right balance I agree but as the old cliche says "if you arent moving forwards, you are actually going backwards" buying the same type of players means you arent going forwards.

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, useless said:

Watkins has been playing as an out and out striker for Brentford this season not as a No.10 type, I don't know if it's because he used to play as 'winger' it's making people think that he wouldn't be a typical centre-forward, but that's how he's been playing this season, straight through the middle, he just has a better all round game than a typical goal poacher, the only question will be whether he can do it at premier league level.

Last season so many were desperate for us to sign Maupay and then moaned when we didn't, his record at Brentford is very similar to Watkins.

Watkins himself described himself as a number 10, the way he plays he said! He said that's the way he wants to play

[nick76]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

50 mill for Benrahma and Watkins would be an absolute steal 

for Brentford, yes i agree

[alreadyexists]

3 minutes ago, useless said:

Watkins has been playing as an out and out striker for Brentford this season not as a No.10 type, I don't know if it's because he used to play as 'winger' it's making people think that he wouldn't be a typical centre-forward, but that's how he's been playing this season, straight through the middle, he just has a better all round game than a typical goal poacher, the only question will be whether he can do it at premier league level.

Last season so many were desperate for us to sign Maupay and then moaned when we didn't, his record at Brentford is very similar to Watkins.

From watching him play a bit (not as much as the Brentford though fans obv) his positional intelligence is one of his biggest assets, coupled with his finishing ability.

[Knutserov13]

I think we will sign Watkins. If Dean wants him, we'll get him. Price? Maybe around 22m £.  

[useless]

I don't know if that's an old quote because Watkins used to play as an attacking midfielder/wide-forward, but I watched at least ten Brentford games this season and in none of them was Watkins playing as a no.10, he was playing just as much of a centre-forward as Abraham was when he was with us in the championship.

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

this, i do agree with you on. and FWIW i don't think he's our only striker target. i would be amazed if we start the season with him, sama, and wes as our striker options (assuming davis is sent on loan). i expect watkins has arrived on our radar following brentford's failed promotion and we had other targets in mind prior to tuesday

then I agree with you.  As I said if we buy him and a top notch striker I would be delighted because I think Watkins has a lot of potential but starting the season with Watkins, Wes, Samatta and Davis with one likely out or on loan just fills me with dread.  it's weak and we are just hoping that one of them plays incredible from the start.

If it's Tammy (another), Watkins, Wes and Samatta with Davis on loan, then I'm delighted.  

I'm scared though because buying let's say Tammy and Watkins will be 40-50m to Tammy and 25m for Watkins.  That's 65-75m on one position and we still need wingers, CM and defensive re-enforcement which I think is unlikely so hence why I think we will only be buying either Watkins or Tammy (another)

[striker]

Not sure at all about Watkins. Hector had him in his pocket in the playoff final. He will be up against much better defenders than Hector in the Premiership.

Don’t think he is much better than Villa already have.

I’d be going all out for Odsonne Edouard at Celtic.

Edited August 6, 2020 by striker

[Zhan_Zhuang]

1 minute ago, striker said:

Not sure at all about Watkins. Hector had him in his pocket in the playoff final. He will be up against much better defenders than Hector in the Premiership.

No he didn't Hector had to foul him a couple of times and Watkins looked lively to me.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

3 minutes ago, striker said:

 

*edit, double-post and can't seem to get rid of this box?

Edited August 6, 2020 by Zhan_Zhuang

[nick76]

19 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

why do you see wesley as a project? we paid 22m for him as our first choice striker...maybe our definitions of project differ, but i see that term used for a younger player who we aim to develop over time rather than a first choice

Apologies, maybe it is my terminology.

Wes was a project because he was young, didnt speak the language, didnt know the country or environment, played in a inferior league.  Based on all those factors you would have to expect he wouldnt hit the ground running, you would just hope it was enough to get by but would grow over the season(s) into the player that his underlying talent suggest he had.  That you would likely not see that full player for at least a season or so. (Luiz for me is a good example of this)

Watkins is a project because although not young young, he's still fairly young, has only played as a striker for one season, in a lower league for a much smaller club.  Throwing him into the first team you would expect it would likely take time to adapt to the league.  It should be less time than Wes but still he's going to have great spells but then really bad spells.

Not projects are the likes of Heaton and Mings who have played this level before, like Jack who has top level talent and is settle at the club and area.  Players that can hit the ground running, are likely to be fairly consistent across the season and know their game well enough and while they probably have loads of area of potential they arent still learning some of the basics like Wes and Watkins at this level.

[tomav84]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I'm scared though because buying let's say Tammy and Watkins will be 40-50m to Tammy and 25m for Watkins.  That's 65-75m on one position and we still need wingers, CM and defensive re-enforcement which I think is unlikely so hence why I think we will only be buying either Watkins or Tammy (another)

see, i would see it as 65-75m correcting the main reason we struggled last season. 6th highest chances created in the league tells the full story and a better forward line would've turned a good few draws into wins (west ham x2, newcastle, sheff utd to name but a few).

i look at this side and think that defensively we're looking generally solid (i'd like a new LB though, but that's being greedy. targett is OK), midfield is decent (assuming we keep jack + luiz), and it's only up top where we're lacking. i disagree that we need CM.

[striker]

2 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

No he didn't Hector had to foul him a couple of times and Watkins looked lively to me.

With all due respect no-one from the Brentford team looked lively against Fulham with maybe the exception of Rico Henry.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

OK maybe 'lively' is too strong a word but he got involved especially more as the game went on and I distinctly remember Hector having to foul him a couple of times.

Think as a whole Brentford were rather poor so that didn't really help him either as Benrahma looked bang average!

Hey as far as I'm concerned what Brentford want for two players untested at the highest level is way too much.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Zhan_Zhuang

[Rightdm00]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

 

We need the right balance I agree but as the old cliche says "if you arent moving forwards, you are actually going backwards" buying the same type of players means you arent going forwards.

I would argue we aren't buying the same type. The 2 players we bought from the Champ last year were Jota and Konsa. Both good players at that level but neither would be considered top 5 or 10 of the championship. 

Now we are back again. Only this time we are looking at Watkins and/or Benhrama.  WhoScored had Benhrama as the top rated player and Watkins was 8th. Just to note Bowen was rated 5th and he comfortably made the step up to the Prem. So we have definitely stepped up our level.

We are still building out a squad of Prem quality players. You could argue we have 7 right now (Heaton, Mings, Konsa, Targett Luiz, McGinn, Grealish). The key for this window is to buy 4/5 players who will get us to a full 11. I think Watkins fits that profile. 

 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, tomav84 said:

see, i would see it as 65-75m correcting the main reason we struggled last season. 6th highest chances created in the league tells the full story and a better forward line would've turned a good few draws into wins (west ham x2, newcastle, sheff utd to name but a few).

I hope you are right but I would be surprised.  I could see spending that money if we then were going to play Watkins as a wide forward like Dean used to play him.

4 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i look at this side and think that defensively we're looking generally solid (i'd like a new LB though, but that's being greedy. targett is OK), midfield is decent (assuming we keep jack + luiz), and it's only up top where we're lacking. i disagree that we need CM.

I disagree about centre midfield.  Assume that Luiz and McGinn are in midfield.  Jack can float between playing midfield or floating wide forward depending on needs, form of players, injuries etc.  We buy two wingers and then Jack can interchange with them as a two if he's not playing in midfield.  So that gives us a third space in midfield who we currently only have Nakamba and Lansbury.  We need another midfielder there, not if Jack plays further forward but let's say Luiz or McGinn gets injured....I mean we lost McGinn for a large part of the season and look how our results declined badly.  

I think we need another quality midfielder (hopefully tall and gangly because we have a lot of short players) to give us options and cover.

[hippo]

Wouldn't go to £25m for him - and don't think anyone else will.

Hope he isn't coming as our marquee or main striker signing.

[tomav84]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I disagree about centre midfield.  Assume that Luiz and McGinn are in midfield.  Jack can float between playing midfield or floating wide forward depending on needs, form of players, injuries etc.  We buy two wingers and then Jack can interchange with them as a two if he's not playing in midfield.  So that gives us a third space in midfield who we currently only have Nakamba and Lansbury.  We need another midfielder there, not if Jack plays further forward but let's say Luiz or McGinn gets injured....I mean we lost McGinn for a large part of the season and look how our results declined badly.  

I think we need another quality midfielder (hopefully tall and gangly because we have a lot of short players) to give us options and cover.

you forgot conor, who put in some decent performances this season particularly post lockdown. i'd expect lansbury will leave, but i've not given up on marvelous.

i expect a CM might be on the shopping list, but much less of a priority