Johan Lange

[useless]

I wonder if Frederick Leth might leave too

Edited October 10, 2023 by useless

[OutByEaster?]

6 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Certainly saw one big Villa poster (can't remember who) describing Duran as Lange's 'parting gift' this morning, so that idea is out there anyway. 

That was me.

The signing of Duran was Lange/scouting lead - he was pulled in to speak to a fans group meeting and with no preparation talked in a really fascinating and order way about the work he did, the way our scouting worked, the way our youth systems were set up and so on - including some detail on how long we'd been tracking Duran and our efforts with his parents and so on to get him signed. 

[OutByEaster?]

I'll say this for him, if there's one place you know you'll be able to sign players without any interference, just because they're the right payer for the club and not under any influence from the Chairman, it's erm....Spurs.

 

[dubbs]

Already seen a piece from London press that he'll bring Watkins, Diaby and Dougie Luis with him

[villa4europe]

35 minutes ago, dubbs said:

Already seen a piece from London press that he'll bring Watkins, Diaby and Dougie Luis with him

I'd be more worried about the academy

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

That was me.

The signing of Duran was Lange/scouting lead - he was pulled in to speak to a fans group meeting and with no preparation talked in a really fascinating and order way about the work he did, the way our scouting worked, the way our youth systems were set up and so on - including some detail on how long we'd been tracking Duran and our efforts with his parents and so on to get him signed. 

Now he's left, and when you can be bothered, would you mind going into some depth about this? Everything you write about Aston Villa is excellently thought out. Even the things I disagree with.

Because sure Duran may have been the blueprint...but Watkins?Coutinho? Digne? Pau T? These are clearly management requests/demands. That's what has driven our transfer business.

This is not the way most clubs in our position succeed. Of course, perhaps Lange knew this but couldn't do anything about it when being ordered to get a contract drafted for Coutinho?

I'll be glum if a list of Lange's top recommendations appears (it obviously won't) in a few years and Haaland, Musiala, Tchouameni and Osimhen are all there in black and white.

But if that is the case, and Lange could show the owners, and even Emery... look, these are the guys I was trying to get in but wasn't allowed to. He would have been handed the keys to the kingdom alongside Unai.

Emery wouldn't have ever mentioned Monchi to the owners, why would he need to? This guy is the bee's knees.

Then there is of course the possibility Lange is sat on his list of players. His database. Lange highlighted Kvaratskhelia but Smith preferred Bailey. He tried to convince Gerrard that Luis Diaz was perfect if we moved quickly, Stevie had already been texting his mate Phil. 

As you've said, good luck if he thinks he'll be given more control at Spurs...

[Villatillidie95]

It did make sense for him to leave as this is a much better fit for him rather than the role he was shunted into here, Monchi was the main man and he was obviously feeling undervalued. I think it could be a smart move for spurs, they have decent budgets and do manage to sign decent players at times but often they have misses and you see them move their players on quite quickly. I think we did get value out of Lange and he did his job here, we had moved on and it made sense for him to aswell

[Villatillidie95]

one of the articles ive come across online is crediting lange with these hits and misses.

hits - matty cash, emi martinez, ollie watkins

misses - philippe coutinho, danny ings, morgan sanson

obviously the article is very surface level and dosent include the context of other factors at villa like the influence of coaches and managers, more so the journo looked at who was in charge at the time and credited lange with the recruitment. article is right in saying that the reaction to the departure has been unremarkable, we havent really engaged with him and hes been behind the scenes so to speak so i suppose thats natural.

the article credits monchi as 'arguably the most renowned sporting director in world football' and says the departure has looked inevitable since his arrival.

[villa4europe]

I still think that's such a simplistic way of looking at it though, he was a sporting director not a chief scout

What about contract renewals, the ability to shift players, the infrastructure of the academy, the facilities etc etc especially the much lauded data analysis that he was supposed to specialise in, has our performance improved due to lange putting in these black bras, sports scientists, nutrionists, physios etc

Edit - serious question, are we fitter than we were 3 years ago? You look at someone like Luiz and his development how much of that is natural progression, how much of it is Emery, how much of it is him maturing and how much of it is lange putting an infrastructure around him across several roles that makes him a better player?

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by villa4europe

[villa4europe]

https://www.transfermarkt.com/aston-villa/mitarbeiter/verein/405

That's what I mean if anyones interested

Alex fraser, chief scout, we got him from Brighton, who knows if he's any good, appointed by lange

Nick Haycock, development coach, appointed by lange

Rob mackenzie, video analyst, appointed by lange

Its not just the players, he's got appointments in every department of the football side of the club - who actually brought in macphee?

[Hank Scorpio]

My only concern now is this.

We are very much tied to Emery, the structure is his and revolves around him, for example Monchi taking on the Lange role. When Emery and Monchi do leave, we won't have much of any senior football structure left at all and it will need to be built from the ground up again really.

[VillaChris]

4 hours ago, dubbs said:

Already seen a piece from London press that he'll bring Watkins, Diaby and Dougie Luis with him

With the new contracts they wouldn't be able to sign the three for less than 200m.

Cue Levy bidding 5m + Eric Dier and Ivan Perisic.....

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, Hank Scorpio said:

My only concern now is this.

We are very much tied to Emery, the structure is his and revolves around him, for example Monchi taking on the Lange role. When Emery and Monchi do leave, we won't have much of any senior football structure left at all and it will need to be built from the ground up again really.

Would Monchi just leave with Emery? He was at Sevilla at two spells for over twenty years and they probably had nearly as many managers in that time.

 

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, Villatillidie95 said:

one of the articles ive come across online is crediting lange with these hits and misses.

hits - matty cash, emi martinez, ollie watkins

misses - philippe coutinho, danny ings, morgan sanson

obviously the article is very surface level and dosent include the context of other factors at villa like the influence of coaches and managers, more so the journo looked at who was in charge at the time and credited lange with the recruitment. article is right in saying that the reaction to the departure has been unremarkable, we havent really engaged with him and hes been behind the scenes so to speak so i suppose thats natural.

the article credits monchi as 'arguably the most renowned sporting director in world football' and says the departure has looked inevitable since his arrival.

That was Coutinho who was a Gerrard indulgence. No chance whatsoever Ings was to do much with him either given how rushed that was.

Bailey would be one so he's probably a miss. Not sure on Buendia, fitted DS profile of what he likes in attacker so could've been 50/50 that one.

[Hank Scorpio]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

Would Monchi just leave with Emery? He was at Sevilla at two spells for over twenty years and they probably had nearly as many managers in that time.

 

Hmm possibly or maybe not. In my head he would I suppose I could be wrong!

[Rds1983]

Moving to Spurs is at least a sideways move and realistically based on where the two clubs are right now it would be seen by most people as a step up.

If Lange was as bad as some people suggest then he wouldn't have got this move.

[Pinebro]

You can take Olsen if you want

[AvfcRigo82]

11 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

My only concern now is this.

We are very much tied to Emery, the structure is his and revolves around him, for example Monchi taking on the Lange role. When Emery and Monchi do leave, we won't have much of any senior football structure left at all and it will need to be built from the ground up again really.

Like we have managed to do smoothly, starting last November.

Since then. We've seen Slippy G, Larry Limelight, Johan Lange and Courtinho (for good measure) all depart..

In that time, Emery, Monchi and Heck & Co. Have arrived.

Not a bad rebuild and year of transition really... so good, you wouldn't even realise that the changing of the guards has happened.

Nas&Wes are smooth operators. 

[Talldarkandransome]

11 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said:

My only concern now is this.

We are very much tied to Emery, the structure is his and revolves around him, for example Monchi taking on the Lange role. When Emery and Monchi do leave, we won't have much of any senior football structure left at all and it will need to be built from the ground up again really.

I think the owners want to build a dynasty with Unai at the helm. He could be our Fergie or Wenger

[The Fun Factory]

So we are now into our third entirely different recruitment network within five years of NWSE ownership. Doesn't exactly scream consistency does it. Farewell Lange, done a good job on the whole.