Are you British?

[tonyh29]

8 hours ago, Enda said:

If that’s in response to me, maybe you misread my meaning? I agree that we’ve had surprising levels of nuance for discussions patriotism chat.

I didn’t quote you but  yeah I guess It was where you said “ and stayed for the sensible posts about patriotism really being a bit silly.“

that I was thinking of when I wrote my reply ... it sorta suggested a side being taken and I was just offering a view that i didn’t think the debate for (or against ) had been that partisan 

so , short answer , yes I misunderstood your meaning  

 

[Jareth]

Just now, mjmooney said:

Nothing??? Really? 

Just out of interest, have you lived in Brum all your life? One the best things I found about moving away from home (admittedly only as far as Leeds) to go to uni, was making new friends from different parts of the country (and indeed, other countries). There was plenty of pisstaking of each other's accents and football teams, etc., but I never perceived any genuine differences. 

Brum, Bournemouth, London, Wales - yeah I was being a bit OTT, quite right to point that out - I tend to remember the worst folks. Got mates from Dorset and Norfolk and they're ok, despite the extra fingers. 

[chrisp65]

4 hours ago, Spoony said:

Sorry if someone asked already, but may I ask why?

I’m not saying this is your view by the way but just if memory serves the Scotland/Wales/NI FA objections were that it somehow blurs the football associations or dilutes football in all the home nations which I really think is bullshit. I never got the sense that the English are trying to dominate any suggestions of GB football, and I thoroughly enjoyed it in 2012. Perhaps I’m naive as to the real issues but I really like the idea of GB football (in specific contexts like the Olympics). 

 

So, as short an answer as I can to a long question. Who knows. We’ve got some time to kill so I might do the fully researched and referenced dissertation later today.

Team GB, how does it get set up? Do we insist on tokenism? There will always be a single representative of each nation in the first team? Or do we have a team GB that might not represent N.Ireland and / or Wales in any one particular game? If the better, stronger team on paper excludes the new Scottish wunderkind, do we still put him in and lose the game, or tell the Scots fans sorry but Sterling, as the 8th English player in the team, was a better bet of progression to the next round.

What will the venue rotation be? How often will Belfast get to see an international? More often than Manchester? More often than Wrexham? When will Swansea ever host an international again?

Ok, we just have it for the Olympics. Except we don’t. There are lots of other national FA’d that dislike the UK block vote of 4 FA’s. Wales came close to losing it’s FA because it did not have a recognised national league. So they had to impose one on Welsh clubs against their will. Blah blah blah, it saved the FAW. If we regularly combine for a team GB that same argument surfaces again, why is there a FAW?

I can’t give an exact quote here, but basically last time team GB was in the ether, the media including BBC used the phrase ‘team GB obviously lead and organised by the FA’. That tells you all you need to know about how GB they intend it to be.

So the FAW gets absorbed in to the FA. Guess what, now there is no route in to Europe for Caernarfon Town, Bangor, Cwmbran Eton al.

Then there is the reputational aspect. As a Wales fan or as a Barry fan, I can go pretty much anywhere in Europe and have a pint with the opposition fans. It’s not perfect, there are idiots. But it’s pretty darn good.

There is no way on god’s good earth I’d travel Europe and have a pint on the plaza as part of a England Wales travelling fan base. 

Then there is the cultural identity. It’s hard enough being 6% of the makeup of GB and not being swamped when we have things like a Wales team to gather around. Imagine being a 6% minority with no football to gather around. Don’t counter this with ah but rugby. Rugby is a weird faux patriotic drinking game for daily mail readers 5 weekends a year.

There’s lots more, but this is getting quite long.

 

[blandy]

42 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

One the best things I found about moving away from home (admittedly only as far as Leeds) to go to uni, was making new friends from different parts of the country (and indeed, other countries). There was plenty of pisstaking of each other's accents and football teams, etc., but I never perceived any genuine differences.

This a million times. They say travel broadens horizons, and they're dead right. The more you travel, or move, the more you realise people are all the same everywhere. And it's people who really make nations. Sure there's landscapes and traditions and such like, and they're great. And it's lovely to arrive home, wherever that is, and feel that connections to "your" place, but new places and new people are fine too. Just as fine.

[meregreen]

Interesting to see at the World Cup Final in 1966, the crowd was a sea of Union Jacks. Nowadays one sees more the Cross of St George. A sign perhaps of changing times. Myself, I’m of an age where the Union Jack is still the flag l feel greater affinity and passion for.

[dAVe80]

When I was much younger, and listened to my uncle (who is a bit right wing) more than I should have, I used to insist i was English, not British. Once I moved away from Brum (thus spending less time listening to my uncle), and broadened my horizons, I got to the point where I really don't care, and consider the accident of where you're born pretty meaningless. I am going to contradict myself slightly, in so much as I do get a bit patriotic when it comes to sport (I know), but on the whole, I just don't get amped up about referring to myself as English or British. On a form, I'll tick the British box, and would probably write that too of required. 

[KentVillan]

I see myself as English and British, and don't really care about it tbh. It makes me a bit anxious and embarrassed when people make a big song and dance about stuff like this.

My dad is part Irish, my mum is part Welsh. The idea of the English being this really distinct race from the other inhabitants of the British Isles has always struck me as a bit unlikely.

I like it when people express their identity in a positive way - language, food, local humour, that kind of thing. But I hate it when people start bringing in perceived superiority. There's nothing worse than someone who thinks they're hard or thinks they're funny purely because of where they come from.

Edited April 5, 2020 by KentVillan

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

19 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Don’t counter this with ah but rugby. Rugby is a weird faux patriotic drinking game for daily mail readers 5 weekends a year

I’ve given you laughy thing because this part really tickled me. I think it’s one the most amusing ways in which I’ve ever seen rugby described. 

[A'Villan]

13 hours ago, KentVillan said:

I see myself as English and British, and don't really care about it tbh. It makes me a bit anxious and embarrassed when people make a big song and dance about stuff like this.

My dad is part Irish, my mum is part Welsh. The idea of the English being this really distinct race from the other inhabitants of the British Isles has always struck me as a bit unlikely.

I like it when people express their identity in a positive way - language, food, local humour, that kind of thing. But I hate it when people start bringing in perceived superiority. There's nothing worse than someone who thinks they're hard or thinks they're funny purely because of where they come from.

I know what you mean, but I can think of far worse than someone who evokes awkward feelings of anxiety and embarrassment.

I'm half Greek, part Irish. Never in my life have I considered myself British, never will. Celtic, perhaps. With two of my middle names being 'Cuchulainn' and 'Finn' you might guess why.

Aren't the English predominantly more Germanic than they are Celtic?

Edit: I was just telling my brother a few days ago that I had done the research and that the places where our family spent their time in Greece were all once Spartan occupied territories (true story) and that if we went to WWIII or the streets became unsafe due to COVID-19 that we were sorted if we had each other's back. This was an attempt at humour, so I probably qualify for being someone who you can't find anything worse than. Lucky me! Ah well, at least my brother's girlfriend found it funny.

Edited April 5, 2020 by A'Villan

[mjmooney]

4 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

I know what you mean, but I can think of far worse than someone who evokes awkward feelings of anxiety and embarrassment.

I'm half Greek, part Irish. Never in my life have I considered myself British, never will. Celtic, perhaps. With two of my middle names being 'Cuchulainn' and 'Finn' you might guess why.

Aren't the English predominantly more Germanic than they are Celtic?

I thought you were Australian? 

I really can't relate to all this identification with forebears' cultures. My dad was Dublin Irish, but I have not the slightest urge to wear Celtic shirts, get smashed on Guinness to celebrate St. Patrick's Day, sing "The Wearing of the Green" or bang on about 'the craic'. As I said upthread, I set no great store by being English, but that's where I was born and lived my whole life, so English I am. 

[chrisp65]

I don’t see genetics or dna or family tree having much of a play in any of this.

You’re on thin ice if you’re basing who you are on how pure you think your ancestors blood line is. Pure bloodline to the olden times basically means your grandad couldn’t afford a bicycle.

 

[A'Villan]

10 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I thought you were Australian? 

I really can't relate to all this identification with forebears' cultures. My dad was Dublin Irish, but I have not the slightest urge to wear Celtic shirts, get smashed on Guinness to celebrate St. Patrick's Day, sing "The Wearing of the Green" or bang on about 'the craic'. As I said upthread, I set no great store by being English, but that's where I was born and lived my whole life, so English I am. 

This I can relate to, even if it wouldn't seem like it.

My family immigrated to Australia during the demand for labour from European countries. I was born in Australia and I have never left.

I don't walk around in my undies and sandals yelling "THIS IS SPARTA!"

[Seat68]

4 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

This I can relate to, even if it wouldn't seem like it.

My family immigrated to Australia during the demand for labour from European countries. I was born in Australia and I have never left.

I don't walk around in my undies and sandals yelling "THIS IS SPARTA!"

In that case I dont think anyone would expect you to call yourself English or British. It would be weird like those crazy Americans that call themselves Irish.

[bickster]

Is this where I point out that  the Island of Ireland is part of the British Isles... and runs like f***

[AVFC_Hitz]

My grandad was a Czech born German who flew for the Luftwaffe. Got shot down over north Africa and met my Cork born Nan in the hospital. In my misguided early teens I decided that I should support Germany at football. That lasted 5 minutes when England beat them 1-5. 

I've never felt uniquely English. When you leave the place though, you start getting excited about seeing baked beans in foreign supermarkets. 

[Wainy316]

34 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

In that case I dont think anyone would expect you to call yourself English or British. It would be weird like those crazy Americans that call themselves Irish.

Yeah, find it crazy that Americans cling onto any Irish or Italian ancestry even when their last relative originally from one of those places is like five generations back.

[kurtsimonw]

8 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Yeah, find it crazy that Americans cling onto any Irish or Italian ancestry even when their last relative originally from one of those places is like five generations back.

To be fair, if they didn't, they'd have to consider themselves American.

[tonyh29]

54 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

This I can relate to, even if it wouldn't seem like it.

My family immigrated to Australia during the demand for labour from European countries. I was born in Australia and I have never left.

I don't walk around in my undies and sandals yelling "THIS IS SPARTA!"

But being in Australia you are walking about in undies and sandals though aren’t you ?  , otherwise you wouldn’t fit in

[A'Villan]

9 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

But being in Australia you are walking about in undies and sandals though aren’t you ?  , otherwise you wouldn’t fit in

Excuse me, you forgot the wife beater singlet (only during winter). We're more advanced than those ancient folk could ever dream of!

 

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

I don’t see genetics or dna or family tree having much of a play in any of this.

You’re on thin ice if you’re basing who you are on how pure you think your ancestors blood line is. Pure bloodline to the olden times basically means your grandad couldn’t afford a bicycle.

 

Red pill moment for you, there was no bicycles in the olden times!

Edited April 5, 2020 by A'Villan

[chrisp65]

6 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Excuse me, you forgot the wife beater singlet (only during winter). We're more advanced than those ancient folk could ever dream of!

 

Red pill moment for you, there was no bicycles in the olden times!

Next you’ll be telling me Moses didn’t come down the hill in his Triumph.