Are you British?

[A'Villan]

3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Next you’ll be telling me Moses didn’t come down the hill in his Triumph.

Oh you are clever. Triumph weren't around in the days of Moses, so that's doubtful at best.

 

[villa4europe]

49 minutes ago, AVFC_Hitz said:

 

I've never felt uniquely English. When you leave the place though, you start getting excited about seeing baked beans in foreign supermarkets. 

They were on offer last week

**** corona, 1€ for a tin of beans is happening 

[AVFC_Hitz]

8 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

They were on offer last week

**** corona, 1€ for a tin of beans is happening 

When I have a cheat day, my go to breakfast is beans on toast with Worcestershire sauce.

Looking at €2.50 a can here. Still a gourmet speciality in the Balkans.

[Chindie]

As bizarre as I find the weird Americanism of being 'Scots Irish' (... shudder) or whatever, the argument is usually that as a 'young' nation, whose history is one of being a nation of nations, they've not yet lost the connection to the parent countries, there's living connections to 'the old country' in many cases (even if they're just memories of a grand parent, for instance). 

Australia doesn't seem to have that much of that. I'd guess that comes in part from a far lesser level of immigration over all (and probably less diverse on the whole), and also because Australia itself is so unique it pretty much develops it's own identity without trying.

[villa4europe]

14 minutes ago, AVFC_Hitz said:

When I have a cheat day, my go to breakfast is beans on toast with Worcestershire sauce.

Looking at €2.50 a can here. Still a gourmet speciality in the Balkans.

If you're gonna cheat then cheat properly... You need some cheese on that toast

And I've seen some properly wrong looking Worcestershire sauce rip offs over here

[Stevo985]

I have a huge amount of Irish ancestry, but I would never consider myself Irish.

I refer to myself as half irish, and I'm very proud of it. I'll tell people I'm from an Irish heritage. But I'm still british.

[Chindie]

I have always been intrigued to what my actual background is, to the extent I've kinda wanted to do one of those DNA history things (except for concerns about how truly accurate they are, and moreover giving some company your DNA).

To my knowledge I'm English as English gets, even my surname hasn't travelled very far (origins in Worcester iirc), but it would be interesting to know if there's any whacky stuff in my heritage. Obviously in England there's a fair chance at having a mix of things simply because of how many peoples have come through these islands. And indeed 'English' is a hodge podge at its core (Celtic, Germanic, Danish, Swedish/Norwegian, French...). But as far as I'm aware I don't even have any Irish ancestry.

[A'Villan]

45 minutes ago, Chindie said:

As bizarre as I find the weird Americanism of being 'Scots Irish' (... shudder) or whatever, the argument is usually that as a 'young' nation, whose history is one of being a nation of nations, they've not yet lost the connection to the parent countries, there's living connections to 'the old country' in many cases (even if they're just memories of a grand parent, for instance). 

Australia doesn't seem to have that much of that. I'd guess that comes in part from a far lesser level of immigration over all (and probably less diverse on the whole), and also because Australia itself is so unique it pretty much develops it's own identity without trying.

Hence my raising the question of whether English people are more Germanic than they are Celtic. My grandpa was around when the British royal family changed it's surname from one that represented Germanic origin (please correct me if I'm wrong).

As for Australia, I'm not sure I grasp what you've said, but despite being far less populated, the vast majority of my friends and acquaintances themselves, or their parents or grandparents, were born overseas. Somalia, Sudan, Eritrea, Egypt, Uganda, Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, Greece, Italy, Turkey, Afghanistan, Iran, Korea, China, Philippines, Japan, Somoa, Tonga, NZ. You name it basically. I'd say this is fairly true of Melbourne at least, and without a doubt Sydney, but perhaps not so much elsewhere.

We share some history with the US, not just by being young and having connection to the country of origin for a family. Both colonised by the British at the expense of the native people. Australia had a white Australia policy. We've got high rise commission flats which are somewhat similar to 'the projects' over in the States, both are predominantly populated by blacks, the main difference is guns aren't bought off the shelf here. There is little to no remorse shown for what happened to the indigenous population, with a former Prime Minister Tony Abbott stating publicly that colonisation was good for the indigenous people, he was later appointed special envoy for indigenous affairs.

Our parliament was formed by the rich men who immigrated for the gold (later known as the Gold Rush, just one 80km2 town producing over 50 tonnes of gold in 40 years)  settled in a suburb called Toorak which today has a median house price of $4,000,000. Oops sorry went a bit off-topic there..

I think this quote is apt:

"We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business"

Patriotism and racism is just a distraction.

[meregreen]

They did a study of English DNA a few years ago. Tha actual percentage of Germanic DNA and indeed Scandinavian DNA was not as great as expected. Can’t remember the actual figures, but ancient Briton DNA ie Celtic was still dominant. Also saw a programme even further back in which it was stated that the term Celtic was a term used by the Greeks to refer to all the Northern European tribes. There is no one tribe of Celts but many, including the English. We simply don’t regard ourselves as anything other than English.

[KentVillan]

9 hours ago, A'Villan said:

Aren't the English predominantly more Germanic than they are Celtic?

I think this is more of a linguistic thing - the English language is definitely Germanic while the Welsh / Irish / Scots Gaelic languages are definitely Celtic. But in terms of DNA... I doubt the differences are anywhere near as pronounced. You take a random assortment of English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish people and try to guess where they're from... I think you'd have a hard time telling the difference until you heard them speak.

5 hours ago, A'Villan said:

My grandpa was around when the British royal family changed it's surname from one that represented Germanic origin (please correct me if I'm wrong).

You're not wrong, but the fact the British royal family had German origins doesn't mean most British people do. The Queen is also the head of state of Jamaica, and I doubt many Jamaicans would see themselves as Germanic.

Edited April 6, 2020 by KentVillan

[A'Villan]

I started to look into it and had to pause as soon as I got to references of U106, R1b and L21 because it's simply beyond my comprehension as is. 

I might take some time to explore later on.

4 hours ago, meregreen said:

They did a study of English DNA a few years ago. Tha actual percentage of Germanic DNA and indeed Scandinavian DNA was not as great as expected. Can’t remember the actual figures, but ancient Briton DNA ie Celtic was still dominant. Also saw a programme even further back in which it was stated that the term Celtic was a term used by the Greeks to refer to all the Northern European tribes. There is no one tribe of Celts but many, including the English. We simply don’t regard ourselves as anything other than English.

There is certainly some accounts that align with what you've said in regard to DNA. Again though it's not something I've got a whole lot of insight into.

42 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I think this is more of a linguistic thing - the English language is definitely Germanic while the Welsh / Irish / Scots Gaelic languages are definitely Celtic. But in terms of DNA... I doubt the differences are anywhere near as pronounced. You take a random assortment of English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish people and try to guess where they're from... I think you'd have a hard time telling the difference until you heard them speak.

You're not wrong, but the fact the British royal family had German origins doesn't mean most British people do. The Queen is also the head of state of Jamaica, and I doubt many Jamaicans would see themselves as Germanic.

Seems like a sound assessment as always mate.

[A'Villan]

For anyone interested:

 

[chrisp65]

So, are we talking racial / genetic / dna type ‘british’ which is utterly defunct?

Or cultural British?

It really makes zero difference where my grandad came from as to whether I’m english or 12.5% Puerto Rican or whatever. Personally, I’m so right on, I have absolutely no interest in any of that.

[snowychap]

11 hours ago, Chindie said:

I have always been intrigued to what my actual background is, to the extent I've kinda wanted to do one of those DNA history things (except for concerns about how truly accurate they are, and moreover giving some company your DNA).

From the stuff that I have read and listened to recently, they really aren't worth a thing.

I mentioned in another thread having listened to one of the Adam Rutherford books earlier in the year and he's done a lot of media stuff on it including this on BBC Sounds:

The Business of Genetic Ancestry.

Quote

A DNA test can help you find your long lost parents and allow you to build your family tree, but when it comes to our deep ancestry, the story is a lot more uncertain, despite what commercial testing companies may claim. Dr Adam Rutherford investigates what modern gene sequencing can (and can't) tell us with scientific certainty and separates the hype and hyperbole from the often complex picture presented by modern gene sequencing.

...when it comes to our deeper history, we have millions, even billions of ancestors, and from a mitochondrial DNA or Y chromosome DNA test, being told you're descended from the Romans, the Vikings, the Celts, or that you're a direct descendant of Charlemagne or Genghis Khan is both true, and meaningless. Some population geneticists have likened such story-telling to "genetic astrology".

And from an article of his:

Quote

When it comes to ancestry, DNA is very good at determining close family relations such as siblings or parents, and dozens of stories are emerging that reunite or identify lost close family members (or indeed criminals). For deeper family roots, these tests do not really tell you where your ancestors came from. They say where DNA like yours can be found on Earth today. By inference, we are to assume that significant proportions of our deep family came from those places. But to say that you are 20 percent Irish, 4 percent Native American or 12 percent Scandinavian is fun, trivial and has very little scientific meaning.

 

[VILLAMARV]

As an English born kid growing up in Wales I was always British first and English basically on egg ball day. Either that or "f#@£+=g Saes" depending on the region. 

The only time that ever changed was when I was in New Zealand. I got fed up of people asking where I was from, going round the whole "I'm British" thing landing on "oh you are English" and then being shunned. Claim a bit of welshness however and they buy you drinks and such and invite you into their sister etc.

Lines on a map as a thing though was stupid long before I was a glint in the milkman's eye. Good for friendly rivalry and banter and little else. 

[chrisp65]

These guys are good, I sent my foot off for analysis

And I’m Egyptian / Oriental / Mongolian.

[lapal_fan]

18 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

These guys are good, I sent my foot off for analysis

And I’m Egyptian / Oriental / Mongolian.

must.not.make.mongol.joke...

[villa4europe]

48 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

must.not.make.mongol.joke...

Strong looking foot... 

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, lapal_fan said:

must.not.make.mongol.joke...

Can't believe nobody's done the obvious small heath joke. 

[legov]

On 06/04/2020 at 05:11, Chindie said:

 

Australia doesn't seem to have that much of that. I'd guess that comes in part from a far lesser level of immigration over all (and probably less diverse on the whole), and also because Australia itself is so unique it pretty much develops it's own identity without trying.

 

****ing pommies